Getting Ugly In Phl

[PITbull]

Red One,

You have taken most of what I said out of context. I appreciate your situation and sympathize with you, but I did not blame the union and union mentality solely for the situation. I said it is a contributing factor.

The fact is that despite the hard workers like yourself (who by the way we credit with keeping this place going throughout the rough times), the lazy ones who hid behind the contracts and worked hard not to work (and still do), are the ones who need to be weeded out and tossed. The union protects them. I guess perhaps merit should play a part in longevity, but that is a foreign concept to the union mentality. While they did serve a purpose in the past, their role has changed yet they don't change with the times--they need to protect their workers, but from a different set of evils. Without cooperation and cross utilization on occasion, the new company CANNOT succeed. Contractual or not, something has to change.
Regarding your response to the parking issue, I am sorry but there is no excuse whatsoever for an aircraft to wait to be parked at gate C24 while 4 or 5 rampers are sitting on their butts reading or eating at the next gate, just watching. No one even makes a call to get the appropriate parties out there. If your job is to park planes, you park planes, period. If the contract stipulates zones, then shame on whomever signed such a stupid contract (that applies to management AND the union). The job has to be done, period.

I never said I have the answers, I just have opinions...and not all of what I say is off base.

I wish you well in your retirement.

[post="309909"][/post]​

That's not fair Art,

Unions give equal representation. But like in any court, it is the same in grievance hearing. If there are no ligitament mitigating circumstances or hard facts to protect a job... no union can save the individual employee.

I'm sorry. I'm in this business and employees rights and protection is the unions job. HOWEVER, if THEY ( the employee) violate their agreement, and provisions, they can not be saved, no matter what.

I get exhausted trying to explain this over and over again to folks who do not understand labor or union business. But most employees who get in hot water with management, do not get their jobs back because there are union leaders that have no talent to do so or proper training to investigate facts.

It is not easy to save a job. Its the hardest thing there is in union representing business. THERE MUST BE FACTS PROVEN AS THE BURDEN IS NOT ON MANGMENT TO PROVE WHY SOMEONE WAS TERMINATED FOR "JUST CAUSE".

Its the union that must prove that the employee was terminated NOT for "just cause".

Thanks DIO,
I can see by your post, you know all too well by experience that its not that easy, nor a "slam dunk" to save jobs for employees who may blatanly violate their own provisions and find themselves terminated FOR "just cause".

Most employees who get terminated don't receive their jobs back. That's a fact.

What I have seen many reps do is negotiate a "resignation" to overturn the termiantion, so folks can find other employement.

 

[D M G]

I am sorry but there is no excuse whatsoever for an aircraft to wait to be parked at gate C24 while 4 or 5 rampers are sitting on their butts reading or eating at the next gate, just watching. No one even makes a call to get the appropriate parties out there.

[post="309909"][/post]​

Art,

How do you know that the rampers sitting on the other gate were even qualified to park an aircraft, or that no one made a call to get the aircraft parked? If I was in your position as a pax on that flight I would have assumed that the rampers on the other gate weren't qualified to park an aircraft, since my experience has taught me that the training in PHL is horrible. I would have also assumed that the Captain or F/O had radioed the tower to get a parker asap, knowing from experience that the pilots usually don't wait to long to make this call.

As I've said before we have plenty of bums working the ramp in PHL, and your 10% estimate is probably too low. The FSA that come to do their jobs would like to see these agents fired too, but management won't do it. Sure the Union gets to save a job or two that shouldn't have been saved, but the vast majority of bums are still working because of incompetent management. Another scary thought is the fact that there aren't a lot of hard workers beating down the doors to work at U. You're very likely to hire a bum to replace the bum you just fired, except now you have to spend money and try to train him.

Also, just as a FYI, the FSA contract doesn't set up the work zones or manpower for a concourse, that's all management.

There's trouble brewing in PHL, and if things don't change then this holiday season will make last years look like a walk in the park. The staffing levels are pathetic and the equipment situation is worse. When the temperature drops so will the operable equipment. The HP Supervisors were ordered out of the city, and if the situation occurs again (playing games, testing the PHL rampers) I would put my money on FSAs clearing the ramp area. The suits have been notified at the highest level.

 

[Art at ISP]

Why do you assume that the HP people were "testing" the agents? What was there to learn by provoking a confrontation? It doesn't make sense. The fact is that things cannot stay the same in PHL. You're right, the potential for a meltdown of epic proportions is there right now. So how do we prevent it?

First, management has to give the staffing and equipment which is sorely needed. If they don't the managers responsible for not doing it need to be gone.

Second, everyone has to pitch in and make it work. If there were another confrontation like you mention and FSA walks off, then THEY should be canned too. There has to be accountability on BOTH sides.

I see the points of each side, but IT HAS TO END SOMEWHERE or this place is doomed and will fail AGAIN. You cannot run a company like this any more. This us against them mentality has to stop, and on both sides.

I repeat what I said before....PHL is a problem...now HOW DO WE FIX IT????

It will be interesting to see if there is any improvement in the coming weeks......I for one hope they staff properly and bring in some new equipment. By the same token, I hope that attitudes relax just enough to let EVERYONE get the job done.

Enough is enough already.

Regarding the ramp agents, when we finally did get parked the gate agent who pulled the jetway mentioned to the captain that that WAS the parking team, but they refused to park the plane because it wasn't their zone. Whether that was dictated by the contract or management, THAT needs to change as well....so it was okay for a bunch of people to misconnect and get pissed......

Fasten your seat belts folks, it's gonna be a bumpy ride....


My best to you all.......

 

[tadjr]

And have these same trainers (they are non union training employees, they arent managers) tested the agents in all the other cities they've been helping convert or just the guys and gals in PHL? Makes you wonder, doesnt it....

 

[diogenes]

I just have to wonder....

Would this level of mistrust exist with a certain Sr. Veep OFF the property? ?

 

[Dog Wonder]

Maybe it has to do with an arrogance on the part of some HP employees.

 

[diogenes]

One more thing on a termination case.

The first grievance level is between the union and the regional director (company).

The next is between the union and labor relations (company).

Only if a case is arbitrated (rare) does someone that is NOT mangement rule on the case.

Says quite a lot when the company has to overturn it's own termination, doesn't it?

The Palace would rather eat their children than admit error, so the CSM has screwed the pooch BIG TIME if a job is saved.

And it happened quite a bit.

Amazingly, some CSM's did it more than once, and I didn't see them get reprimanded for a poor job, OR EVEN TRAINED TO GET IT RIGHT NEXT TIME!

 

[elixir]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...........THIS IS GOD SPEAKING......

THIS DIALOGUE HAS GONE LONG ENOUGH WITH FEW TANGIBLE RESULTS....THE HORSE HAS BEEN DEAD FOR ...ERR...AT LEAST 20 PAGES...
I COMMAND YOU TO PRAY FOR THE WELFARE OF YOUR NEW COMPANY...ADHERE TO THE GOLDEN RULE...AND MOVE ON TO A NEW TOPIC...OR I'LL SMOTE YOU AND YOUR CATTLE...AND SEND YOU INTO THE DESERT...FOR AT LEAST 40 YEARS....

AMEN

 

[hp_fa]

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN...........THIS IS GOD SPEAKING......

...FOR AT LEAST 40 YEARS....

AMEN

[post="310099"][/post]​

Only 18 to go.....

 

[700UW]

Wrong Bob,

That is not fleet service covered work, he can pick up as much trash on the ramp as he likes.

Bottom line is the company must abide by the CBA they agreed too, why is that so hard to understand?

 

[tadjr]

That is not fleet service covered work, he can pick up as much trash on the ramp as he likes.

[post="310116"][/post]​

Might want to let your PHL brothers know this, ya know just in case they misunderstood. Dont want their kids to starve tonight when someone else picks up that cigarette butt and daddy looses his job. :down:

 

[libertybell]

Bob,

What kind of work do you do so someone can come in a sub contract out your A@@?

You will never understand the problems from PHL unless you work on the job 40 hours a week working under the conditions the employees work under. You are an outsider looking in and while many thank you for your flying this airline the bottom line is untill you work the field you will never understand why the Ramp is so pissed off. They have been screwed blued and tattoed, pay cut to sub industry wages, benefit cuts premium increases , manpower shortages equipment that is so scarce you have to steal from other airlines to run your bags and union that has no spine all until the other night when they stood up as one group and said Enough. I have not agreed with the union for many years on the way they have represented the workers but the bottom line on this topic is that this is there work its a closed shop under contract and I support them 100 percent.

 

[700UW]

Very well said libertybell.

Why don't we let Bob work the ramp in PHL one night and then maybe his eyes will open.

 

[longing4piedmont]

Very well said libertybell.

Why don't we let Bob work the ramp in PHL one night and then maybe his eyes will open.

[post="310129"][/post]​

No time to respond now, other than to say maybe just maybe that was the original intent of management 23 pages ago. Just want to save the quote before pointing out how ironic it is.

Too much blue water?

I'll be back.............................

 

[robbedagain]

why dont Douggie get of his hiney and spend a week or two in phl and then he'd know what hell really is like? all hes got to do is get more equipment in phl but apparently he doesnt seem to care or maybe it is me