Grounding 744s ?

[LukeAisleWalker]

OK, thought I would start a thread that was NOT union related or FA-related only.

I have read on airliners.net in the discussion forums that some of their members are saying (wisely or unwisely---I think there are a lot of young teens on there as well as aviation professionals) that Delta may ground the 744s in the current economic climate due to their large capacity.
One poster said he thinks NW only flew that a/c for its range but don't the A330s have an even longer range?
Some argue that DL needs the a/c because if they grounded them all, there wouldn't be enough other a/c to take over the 744s former routes. But if DL is cutting Int'l capacity by 10% and, I'm assuming some routes entirely, then wouldn't there then be enough a/c to fill in for the 744s??

Thoughts??..........

 

[dapoes]

OK, thought I would start a thread that was NOT union related or FA-related only.

I have read on airliners.net in the discussion forums that some of their members are (wisely or unwisely---I think there are a lot of young teens on there as well as aviation professionals) that Delta may ground the 744s in the current economic climate due to their large capacity.
One poster said he thinks NW only flew that a/c for its range but don't the A330s have an even longer range?
Some argue that DL needs the a/c because if they grounded them all, there wouldn't be enough other a/c to take over the 744s former routes. But if DL is cutting Int'l capacity by 10% and, I'm assuming some routes entirely, then wouldn't there then be enough a/c to fill in for the 744s??

Thoughts??..........

Its all AFA's fault.

 

[Dignity]

OK, thought I would start a thread that was NOT union related or FA-related only.

I have read on airliners.net in the discussion forums that some of their members are saying (wisely or unwisely---I think there are a lot of young teens on there as well as aviation professionals) that Delta may ground the 744s in the current economic climate due to their large capacity.
One poster said he thinks NW only flew that a/c for its range but don't the A330s have an even longer range?
Some argue that DL needs the a/c because if they grounded them all, there wouldn't be enough other a/c to take over the 744s former routes. But if DL is cutting Int'l capacity by 10% and, I'm assuming some routes entirely, then wouldn't there then be enough a/c to fill in for the 744s??

Thoughts??..........

why eliminate a 400 plus seat aircraft when jet fuel is not where it was? couldn't one 747 handle the same amount of passengers as two 767s, two crews, including fuel?

I predict the 747 will be around a little while longer...

I think if the 747 was grounded the NW pilots would be able to fly a 777 for each one 747 grounded for the first several years?? I stand corrected on that..

I would imagine to see older 767 go first in a capacity cut rather than a 747(because there are not a lot of 747/744s compared to the abundance of 767s)

They need 777 and 747 at this time..for the longest range flights with maximum seating capacity..eventually becoming an all 777 fleet when the 744 is retired.. and a 777 replaces a 747 one for one..

 

[Kev3188]

OK, thought I would start a thread that was NOT union related or FA-related only.

I have read on airliners.net in the discussion forums that some of their members are saying (wisely or unwisely---I think there are a lot of young teens on there as well as aviation professionals) that Delta may ground the 744s in the current economic climate due to their large capacity.

The ratio of "fan boys" to people actually working in aviation is about 5 to 1 in favor of the former in my experience... There's a lot of traffic/info over there, but you have to wade through a lot of crap to get to the good stuff...

One poster said he thinks NW only flew that a/c for its range but don't the A330s have an even longer range?

They don't, but that's not why we're flying 'em...

747-400= 7284NM
A330-200=6400NM
A330-300=4550NM


(I may be off on these numbers, but I think they're correct???)

Some argue that DL needs the a/c because if they grounded them all, there wouldn't be enough other a/c to take over the 744s former routes. But if DL is cutting Int'l capacity by 10% and, I'm assuming some routes entirely, then wouldn't there then be enough a/c to fill in for the 744s??

Thoughts??..........

I think the -400 will be around for awhile. Even with the cuts, they fill a role the other A/C types can't, both in range and capacity.

 

[flyhigh]

I would imagine that the reason DL switched out NW's orders for 787's for 777's was based on retiring 744's. They can get the 777's sooner and begin laying down the 744's as soon as each 777 comes in. The need for 744's by US carriers is limited to none these days. With every carrier having the ability to fly just about anywhere they want (sans China), the competition in the individual carriers would be better off with 777's which are smaller and more efficient.

 

[TDR1502C]

Amatuer fleet planners have all the answers except why whales fly. If Delta was smart they would put main deck cargo doors on their 777s and reinforce the floors.

Kev, you're being generous with that 5-to-1 ratio.

 

[Dignity]

If Delta was smart they would put main deck cargo doors on their 777s and reinforce the floors.

on all the 777s?

 

[jimntx]

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, KLM had several 747s that were part passenger, part cargo on main deck. First class was front of the plane and upper deck as usual. Business class was about 6 rows behind F/C, then there were maybe 10 rows of coach followed by a floor to ceiling bulkhead. Behind that was all cargo.

They flew these planes on IAH-AMS on Mon-Wed, then all passenger 747s on Thurs-Sun.

 

[Dignity]

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, KLM had several 747s that were part passenger, part cargo on main deck. First class was front of the plane and upper deck as usual. Business class was about 6 rows behind F/C, then there were maybe 10 rows of coach followed by a floor to ceiling bulkhead. Behind that was all cargo.

They flew these planes on IAH-AMS on Mon-Wed, then all passenger 747s on Thurs-Sun.

Oh yeah the combi's...I have seen them before...but sometimes I wonder about having part passenger cabin and part freight separated by a bulkhead on the same deck..the cabin layout that is..
I wonder the routes that would actually economically support combi's now-a-days especially when so much freight is moved by dedicated freighters?

the A380 to me would be an interesting concept combi aircraft...you know they could utilize the main deck for freight and the upper deck for passengers, sort of a two for one freight/passenger plane in one!

 

[TDR1502C]

on all the 777s?

Yep. They'd make good replacements for the NWA freighters, except for the nose-loaders. Good reliability, ok range for freight routes, moderate operating costs. That would leave the 744 for long routes instead of using aircraft restricted to Etops routes.

Oh yeah the combi's...I have seen them before...but sometimes I wonder about having part passenger cabin and part freight separated by a bulkhead on the same deck..the cabin layout that is..

Northwest Orient ditched their Combi's years ago as being impractical, but KLM used 747-300 Combi's often on AMS - DTW routing.

I wonder the routes that would actually economically support combi's now-a-days especially when so much freight is moved by dedicated freighters?

the A380 to me would be an interesting concept combi aircraft...you know they could utilize the main deck for freight and the upper deck for passengers, sort of a two for one freight/passenger plane in one!

Kev to the white courtesy phone please. Most freight is lower deck, and a 744 can carry a LOT! Check ot Air Transport World's figures for who moves what. You'd be surprised at what can be moved down below.

 

[Kev3188]

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, KLM had several 747s that were part passenger, part cargo on main deck.

I thought they still had them???

 

[Dignity]

I thought they still had them???

I think they do, if I recall correctly, some of the combi's were used for KLM Asia in the recent past and now are used elsewhere..

 

[Don Smith]

I just read that DL is going to use a couple of 747s to start service between Atlanta (I'm sure) and Europe (I think). They may ground the cargo units but evidently they think there is a market out of ATL.

 

[BABABOOY]

I just read that DL is going to use a couple of 747s to start service between Atlanta (I'm sure) and Europe (I think). They may ground the cargo units but evidently they think there is a market out of ATL.

FWIU the only announced route is ATL-HNL for the 744

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

FWIU the only announced route is ATL-HNL for the 744

Aren't they still planning a second ATL-NRT on the 744 this summer?