Hawaiian Long Haul Fleet

[goodstew]

Kind of embarrassing that HA has more widebodies flying/on order than us. We've discussed it before but how cool would it be to expand internationally to the west.
Don't want to start an endless merger topic but things seem quiet....

 

[BoeingBoy]

Until the A350's start being delivered (or fill-in's with the range), Asian expansion will be at best limited. HA has almost 2,000 less miles to fly between HNL and Asia than even PHX-Asia.

 

[VegasGambler]

Kind of embarrassing that HA has more widebodies flying/on order than us. We've discussed it before but how cool would it be to expand internationally to the west.
Don't want to start an endless merger topic but things seem quiet....

I have been saying this for months Hawaiian is ripe for plucking they have the routes the equipment that they keep adding to the fleet. Our service in the pacific is a freaking joke. the ATA 757s are junk....If we gotta merge this should be out target we need wide body planes and route to the pacific Asian markets Japan South Korea Sydney etc
Read this report from the LA times

http://www.latimes.com/travel/sns-ap-us-travel-brief-hawaiian-airbus,0,6935761.story

For crying out loud Tempe wake the F up....

 

[goodstew]

Until the A350's start being delivered (or fill-in's with the range), Asian expansion will be at best limited. HA has almost 2,000 less miles to fly between HNL and Asia than even PHX-Asia.

that's my point, merge...be THE intraisland carrier AND have a great jumping off point to asia and south pacific. Granted, no nonstops from North America with HNL as 'hub' but lots of opportunities....It can only get better with the 350's coming. Lets position now.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The trouble with HA is that it would make a minimum of 2 stop/connection service to Asia, which wouldn't be competitive for mainland-Asia traffic. Asian service works for HA because of all the Asian traffic to/from HI.

Jim

 

[VegasGambler]

The trouble with HA is that it would make a minimum of 2 stop/connection service to Asia, which wouldn't be competitive for mainland-Asia traffic. Asian service works for HA because of all the Asian traffic to/from HI.

Jim

Jim
Feed Traffic from the west thru connection point in HNL in my view is not problem it gives US more options....I know you guys up front want 747 777 and other super long range but we gotta start some where? We get access to feed traffic on our AC rather on Star Alliance...

 

[cynic]

HA doesn't have many potential destinations for anything other than widebodies, but if you want to compare apples and peaches, go right ahead.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim
Feed Traffic from the west thru connection point in HNL in my view is not problem it gives US more options....

For me bigger equipment isn't a factor - I retired 4 years ago. What I was saying is that US could only offer connections to Asia through PHX or west coast airports that HA serves (and how many of those HA west coast flights depend on feed from other airlines like AA?). So a US/HA combo could offer two stop/connection service (origin-PHX or west coast airport-HNL-Asia) for many potential passengers while other airlines could offer 1 stop/connection service (origin-west coast/midwest-Asia).

Jim

 

[Kittyhawk]

I flew on HA back in August. I loved it. The experience reminded me of how flying used to be back before all the cutbacks. I worry that if we should merge, it may ruin a good thing.

 

[Itestwell]

I flew on HA back in August. I loved it. The experience reminded me of how flying used to be back before all the cutbacks. I worry that if we should merge, it may ruin a good thing.

Can anyone compare HA's costs to US' costs, and what a merger of the two would do to HA's profitability?

 

[zethya]

For me bigger equipment isn't a factor - I retired 4 years ago. What I was saying is that US could only offer connections to Asia through PHX or west coast airports that HA serves (and how many of those HA west coast flights depend on feed from other airlines like AA?). So a US/HA combo could offer two stop/connection service (origin-PHX or west coast airport-HNL-Asia) for many potential passengers while other airlines could offer 1 stop/connection service (origin-west coast/midwest-Asia).

Jim

The point may be that if US merged with HA, they could have a potential to add 21 widebody aircraft to the existing fleet (18x767-3 and 13x322s). With the additional 332s and assuming the deliveries after next year would be 332HGW versions, PHX-NRT non-stop should be easily achievable - even in high summer. The 767-3s would likely never make it though, but they could be used to replace some US 332s on current European routes in favor of longer range expansion destinations. Assumption being that if US (Parker) is the acquirer, it would define the new airline's route structure as an optimum composite of the existing US/HA.

 

[HPearlyretiree]

I have been saying this for months Hawaiian is ripe for plucking they have the routes the equipment that they keep adding to the fleet. Our service in the pacific is a freaking joke. the ATA 757s are junk....If we gotta merge this should be out target we need wide body planes and route to the pacific Asian markets Japan South Korea Sydney etc
Read this report from the LA times

http://www.latimes.com/travel/sns-ap-us-travel-brief-hawaiian-airbus,0,6935761.story

For crying out loud Tempe wake the F up....

Which ATA 757's are flying to Hawaii? IIRC, ATA jammed 218 in their 757's to HNL and OGG, US flies 190.

Hawaii is a lower yield market, gone are the days of the 747's to HNL. The 757 may not be the most comfortable plane for 5.5 hours, but, performance/cost wise, its a great plane. The 767 makes sense for HA as they fly HNL as an O&D. I'd rather have a full 757 to Hawaii than a 75% full 767 that could be better served in Europe or S. America. And, I'd love some bigger planes flying PHX-NRT or to Taiwan, etc. Planes aren't here now, that's life.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Can anyone compare HA's costs to US' costs, and what a merger of the two would do to HA's profitability?

MIT's Airline Data Project updates info annually so the latest is for 2009 - US' stage length adjusted CASM was almost double HA's (14 cents vs 7.8 cents).

The point may be that if US merged with HA, they could have a potential to add 21 widebody aircraft to the existing fleet (18x767-3 and 13x322s). With the additional 332s and assuming the deliveries after next year would be 332HGW versions, PHX-NRT non-stop should be easily achievable - even in high summer.

So basically dismantle large parts of the HA operation? Souncs like the PSA merger. Since the next 332's aren't scheduled till 2013 I'm not sure how much changing could be done to get the HGW version by 2012 unless that's the version that HA is already getting. Plus, just about every other carrier flying to Asia has NRT service so that would be a pretty competitive market.

Jim

 

[USFlyer]

First, I don't believe HA will merge with anyone nor does HA have any need to. Second, if HA were to seek a merger partner, I'd be looking at DL. The HNL-Asia/Australia routes would fit in well with DL's other Pacific ops (thanks to the merger with NW). DL would know how to leverage the HNL hub. US would cut and run.

 

[strangiatotheme]

Which ATA 757's are flying to Hawaii? IIRC, ATA jammed 218 in their 757's to HNL and OGG, US flies 190.

Well, since the East was operating one HNL turn, you'd occasionally get on the of the ex-ATA birds...