Hi Ho its off to Jail they go

[diogenes]

Plus, a strict interpretation of the Constitution being all the rage, check this out.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

A strict reading of the First Amendment says Congress shall make no law...prohibiting the right of the people to peaceably assemble.

That indicates to me the laws restricting labor organizing are unconstitutional.

And for those who say government should stay out of business, I give you Article 1:Section 8

"Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;"

Regulate how?

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

 

[john john]

John John, I am not sure I understand the question. I was referring to a larger world then just the airline. I was referring to a lot of our captains of industry that are out there, not just the airline industry. I was also referring to grunts, who could be garbage collectors, people who work in the supermarkets, fast food industry, and a whole lot of others including the aviation industry.

So, if you still have a question could you re-word it for me?

Sorry, I thought you were talking about the airline industry and US Airways

 

[PITbull]

An example of organized labor voice to protect pension plans...current day 2006.

Below is an exerpt from an article in AFL-CIO Now:

http://blog.aflcio.org/2006/05/30/public-e...s-under-attack/
But workers are winning some pension battles. Under steady pressure from working families, California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger ® last year pulled back from one of his anti-union initiatives, suspending his pension privatization initiative. Thousands of union members had protested the initiative, turning out at the governor’s events throughout California. A strong effort by unions and civil rights and community groups overwhelmingly defeated other Schwarzenegger initiatives, as well, including one that would have eliminated public employees’ right to free speech.

In Colorado, the right-wing group Americans for Prosperity was forced to withdraw its pension privatization ballot initiative after legislators, public-employee unions and the state pension system struck a compromise in April to reform the state’s largest pension plan. Under the compromise legislation, the state would address the $11.3 billion unfunded liability of its defined-benefit pension plans by raising the minimum retirement age from 50 to 55 for new hires and giving the pension fund more than 30 years to reach full funding.

Maryland teachers and state employees will get better pensions thanks to $120 million in improvements signed into law last week. Maryland’s pension bill allows people hired after 1998 to retire with 54 percent of their pre-retirement income, up from about 42 percent. Under the new law, workers’ contributions will increase from 2 percent to 5 percent over three years.


Read the rest by clicking the "link"...

 

[diogenes]

PB,

I take the view that people may organize in any fashion they wish - the Rotary, churches, bowling leagues or unions.

How many laws dictate the Rotary, churches or bowling leagues? Mighty few.

How many dictate union activity? Many, and nearly all restrict the formation of or access to a union.

Would we stand for it if a corporation or the government dictated the Rotary, churches or bowling leagues? There was a revolution over the matter a few years back.

 

[Travels2mch]

It still amazes me that folks like yourself never ask how it came to be...here you sit, after 28 years enjoying the fruits and squaking that you never needed a union to have it. You just made my point.

To have these provisions without having a union and not paying union dues not having to fight for it must make you feel outstanding .. However, someone else who has, and still do set the "standard". You reaped by their courage and risk, even those that fight today to maintain and keep the "standard" alive.Your just too arrogant to humble yourself to acknowledge it.
We have a word for folks like yourself...I'm sure you know what that is.
Oh, and btw, before you start accusing me of some union leader bias, I'M NO LONGER UNION, but rather holding a management position. But I certainly support organized labor and recognize its purpose..., for the reasons you just pointed out, who directly and INdirectly it benefits. Organized labor is our Nation's back bone and an element in maintaining the checks /balances, and is the driving economic force in our infrastructure.

First of all, I'm not 'squaking' or being arrogant, and I really don't care what words you have for folks like myself. I am just stating my opinion and I see that you have a lot of passion for your opinion on this subject and I applaud that. I also come from a very long family line of union members and am fully aware of what they they did, both good and bad.

When you hear about stories like the 'thug 22' happening in todays world though, it does give a bad impression and causes one to question the motivation. This is 2006 and one would hope that people would act more professionally in the workforce. And defending actions of people that act like this just drives it in deeper.

There's no need to get nasty....again, it's just an opinion and we're all entitled to them. We're not going to change other's feelings about these things and it's not even worth trying. That's the beauty of a free country, we're free to think and do what works best for us.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Organized labor is our Nation's back bone

Puh leeessse.
Organized Labor is not this country's backbone. They have been reduced to less than 8% of the private sector. And if not for the voluntary recognitions of hundreds of thousands of home health workers, it would probably hover around 6%-7%.

The facts are that they have been rendered 'useless' in most situations as they are in disarray. And that happens to be the main reason why workers are so disinterested in them.

Besides, organized labor has left the labor canopy in search of being a political organization for the extreme left.

regards,

 

[john john]

it does give a bad impression and causes one to question the motivation.This is 2006 and one would hope that people would act more professionally in the workforce.

Seams like management doesn’t know how to act and the unions do Check and balance Glass and gang almost pull it off if it wasn’t for some good union involvement the story would read union stage a job action

US Airways Watch
Friday, March 04, 2005

By Dan Fitzpatrick, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

US Airways flight attendants union President Teddy Xidas demanded yesterday that US Airways publicly apologize for its response to a Christmas travel debacle that affected 560,000 passengers, saying in a statement that the airline "wrongly accused" employees for "management shortcomings."

Her comments came a day after the U.S. Department of Transportation inspector general concluded that staffing shortages in Philadelphia and an inadequate response by US Airways managers were to blame for a holiday mess that led to the cancellation of 405 flights, delayed another 3,900 and resulted in 72,000 baggage complaints.

Airline Chief Executive Officer Bruce Lakefield originally blamed the problems on employees who called in sick, but the inspector general found that flight attendant sick calls were no higher than the corresponding holiday period a year earlier.

"It's wrong to hold up to public scorn those employees whose job it is to provide personal service to the public," Xidas said. "We would never desert our passengers, and US Airways should acknowledge our commitment." She added: "The people who run the company need to face up to their own failures."

The company did call the events "unfortunate" in a news release Wednesday and is taking steps to solve the staffing issues, but Xidas said in an interview that the comments were "abstract" and fell short of an actual apology.


In January, as it tried to recover from a disastrous holiday travel season, US Airways ranked among the bottom of U.S. airlines in on-time arrivals, mishandled bags and passenger complaints, according to a new report from the Transportation Department.

The airline, seventh-largest in the country, arrived on time 68.6 percent of the time in January, or sixth-worst out of 19 carriers. It was fourth-worst in mishandled baggage reports, with 14.81 per 1,000 passengers (up from 3.85 in January 2004), and second-worst in consumer complaints, with 7.66 for every 100,000 boardings (up from 1.04 in January 2004). Most of the complaints were about baggage and flight problems.

 

[PITbull]

First of all, I'm not 'squaking' or being arrogant, and I really don't care what words you have for folks like myself. I am just stating my opinion and I see that you have a lot of passion for your opinion on this subject and I applaud that. I also come from a very long family line of union members and am fully aware of what they they did, both good and bad.

When you hear about stories like the 'thug 22' happening in todays world though, it does give a bad impression and causes one to question the motivation. This is 2006 and one would hope that people would act more professionally in the workforce. And defending actions of people that act like this just drives it in deeper.

There's no need to get nasty....again, it's just an opinion and we're all entitled to them. We're not going to change other's feelings about these things and it's not even worth trying. That's the beauty of a free country, we're free to think and do what works best for us.

From your posts, and others like you on this thread, use these 22 as a guage or barometer for all of labor. I take exception to that line of thinking, so I voice it. The labor scope is much broader and on a higher level than that.

The entire labor movement is not wrapped up in what 22 or 42, or 102 folks get accused of. Remember, on this board your only getting half a story...if that.

Nelson,

If you don't believe that organized labor brings an element of balance in our economy and don't regard the "standards" strived for as worth an effort that is still continuing...then you are not as smart as I regarded you.

Labor is the BACKBONE of our Nation, it sets the standard...you and I come now AFTER the fact and WE reap those benefits whether you and I are in a union or not!

Corporate America can not function or exist without a workforce...and TAXES cannot be paid to operate the government, have the mightest military to defend the country and provide the services without workers working paying those taxes, consumers cannot purchase without an income.

Makes the world go round, my friend...and begins where???? Labor. It isn't the 2% wealthy that are footing the bill. They have in their arsenal a thing called "tax shelters".

Organized labor has never been on the "right" politically. The righties only stand for "survival of the fittest" and the almighty $$$ bottom line sprinkled with some evangelical self-righteous mumbo jumbo... "live as I say, do as I say", "believe what I say",but don't do as I do".

 

[700UW]

Doesn't always work that way............... :unsure:

Wrong, you don't have to be a union member in a closed shop.

You can be a non-member dues objector and pay only what is germane to the CBA for dues.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Wrong, you don't have to be a union member in a closed shop.

You can be a non-member dues objector and pay only what is germane to the CBA for dues.

True.........but it's not the same.........you're either union or not in my eyes.

 

[700UW]

Not in the eyes of the law. You are considered a non-member, no voting rights and no participation.

 

[john john]

Not in the eyes of the law. You are considered a non-member, no voting rights and no participation.

But you still have to represent them

 

[Tim Nelson]

From your posts, and others like you on this thread, use these 22 as a guage or barometer for all of labor. I take exception to that line of thinking, so I voice it. The labor scope is much broader and on a higher level than that.

The entire labor movement is not wrapped up in what 22 or 42, or 102 folks get accused of. Remember, on this board your only getting half a story...if that.

Nelson,

If you don't believe that organized labor brings an element of balance in our economy and don't regard the "standards" strived for as worth an effort that is still continuing...then you are not as smart as I regarded you.

Labor is the BACKBONE of our Nation, it sets the standard...you and I come now AFTER the fact and WE reap those benefits whether you and I are in a union or not!

Corporate America can not function or exist without a workforce...and TAXES cannot be paid to operate the government, have the mightest military to defend the country and provide the services without workers working paying those taxes, consumers cannot purchase without an income.

Makes the world go round, my friend...and begins where???? Labor. It isn't the 2% wealthy that are footing the bill. They have in their arsenal a thing called "tax shelters".

Organized labor has never been on the "right" politically. The righties only stand for "survival of the fittest" and the almighty $$$ bottom line sprinkled with some evangelical self-righteous mumbo jumbo... "live as I say, do as I say", "believe what I say",but don't do as I do".

Pitbull,

I agree Labor is the backbone of this country. I disagree that organized labor is the backbone. Organization has nothing to do with it. Both the 92% who are comfortable not being organized, together with the 8% who choose to be organized are the backbone.
At any rate, never regard me as smart.

As far as politically, the right is often a long way from home but my point wasn't where 'other' groups are on the political spectrum, but rather that I believe 'organized labor' is too left and is far removed from the labor canopy. Perhaps this is where the new coalition wants to go back to, labor.

regards,

 

[PITbull]

Tim,

I've always regarded your posts as intelligent and well thought out. Even this one.

Our views are only polar in certain instances. There are many, and I mean many folks in this country that would like to be represented by a union, but are too afraid of the reprisel to start a grass roots effort.

I know from first hand experience how difficult it is and was fired from my nursing job in 1996 from a nursing home in Pittsburgh. I was told by the VP of organizing that management would come after me, so I was prepared to sacrifice a part-time job because I had comfort that I had my U job as my main job and livilihood. I dotted all my "i" and crossed all my "t"s in the process of the termination. It took them 5 weeks through their discipline process to terminate me (I had that job for 4 years 20 hours per week and was never late and never called off, ever). So, as the story goes at 1199P, with the union by side, took it to the labor board and WON retro active pay 14 months worth...in the meantime, I was invovlved in negotiating the nurses first contract the entire time. It was extremely satisfying to have the management sit across from me during by separation from them. LOL..

This started my affinity to labor, not that you asked or cared... B)

My point, the 92% that is non-union would be much reduced if they could risk their own job to organize. Folks are in their comfort zone and can't take a risk like I could. Many men in labor have families to support and can't risk even a temporary termination...I just happened to have the greatest VP, Neal Bisno of 1199P relentlessly protecting me and grooming me and giving me the voice and the strength to make it all the way. Those organizers are true champions for union.

I do recognize that currently we have some pretty weak leaders in these high union positions. Some are corrupt (i've met them, trust me in different unions) in the sense that they hold these positions for the wrong reasons. Some how they can "snow" the membership (like some representatives in Congress) and get elected.

 

[diogenes]

Gauging from results, the 'left' could meet in a phone booth with room to spare.

The mainstream media (NBC, CBS, Ny Times, etc)? Culturally left (guns, abortion) but economically conservative. Russert, Brokaw and the like have portfolios and bonuses to protect, and they dare not offend their corporate masters.

http://www.midtod.com/exclusives/jack-welch.phtml

Why is it a Presidential blow-job is impeachment-worthy, but leaking a NOC, warantlessly spying on Americans, and torturing prisoners of war is not?

We're at war? Funny, we were when Clinton got impeached, and that didn't slow the SOB's down for a second.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...o/etc/cron.html