How much do you love LOA 93?

[Tiger 1050]

Nostradamus,

The West would rather have us pick up the Nickel while they get the Dollars.

Lets see:

The West got our 401K rates- Payraise
The West got our profit sharing- Payraise
The West got a 3% raise in Jan- Payraise and no offer to share with East
The West wants 1/2 of the 70 million from LOA93

Nic award:

The West goes from 40% of Captain positions to 60%
The West will own the widebody positions in a few years

Seems like a good deal for the East to get a nickel on the dollar. Don't worry according to the AWA MEC... in time you will get over it just like the loss of the pension.

:blink:

 

[traderjake]

What my cohorts on the East side mean by lottery and windfall for the West is

1 A reserve East F/O was not given the job held by a West Captain.

2 A furloughed East F/O was not given the job held by a working West pilot.

3 The first active pilot in line to be furloughed on the East side did not have 1000 West pilots put below him.

Why is it so hard for the rest of the world to understand that working for a stagnant, poorly run company for 20 years entitles us to the above.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some of my East coworkers should not leave the house without adult supervision.

 

[BottomFeeder]

AAA MEC theme - WAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaa!

Junbug172,

Very chicky of you but you missed the R

WAAAARRR

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Now that's a good joke

I saw the same joke on the internet about a man offering a woman 1,000,000 to sleep with her. Then he offered 5 bucks and she was offended. His reply was that they had established what she was and now they were figuring the price.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

What you and John McIlvenna do not get is that the US Airways pilots, to a man and woman, would rather work under LOA 93 and not let the Nicolau Award proceed than to have a new joint contract. Why? They believe they will make more money and have a better quality of life than if they obtained a joint contract and had the Nicolau Award passed onto the Company.

For example, I spoke with a US Airways pilot today who is in his 20th year of service. This pilots career expectation pre-merger was to retire at age 60 flying the A330 number 41 on the seniority list. His Nicolau Award career expectation is to retire at age 60 at over 700 on the Nicolau Award seniority list flying an A320. How is that fair when the AWA pilots never had a widebody job in their pre-merger career expectation.

His lost income is a huge number due to the Nicolau Award, not to mention his reduced quality of life.

You are waisting your time trying to convince the US Airways pilots to accept the Nicolau Award so you can obtain a windfall and a joint contract because IT WILL NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE CAN DO ABOUT IT! Moreover, ALPA International is not going to forward the Nicolau Award to the company!

What is fair is to have separate contracts with separate operations that are permanent and provide scope, furlough, and whip saw protections, and this agreement follows any future mergers. Why? This preserves each pilot groups career expectations and provides an improved contract.

Again, your rhetoric and banter is like "blowing into the wind", and for the record, every time John McIlvenna speaks he just makes the East pilots angrier and increases their resolve to do anything and everything possible to prevent the Nicolau Award from ever being implemented.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Callsign_Cactus]

Wake up, you can't be that naive. This happens during mergers, every merger. How in the heck can you merge 2 major carriers and NOT have your career expectation change? IMPOSSIBLE! And history has shown how difficult it is integrating employees because of that fact alone.

AWA320,

What you and John McIlvenna do not get is that the US Airways pilots, to a man and woman, would rather work under LOA 93 and not let the Nicolau Award proceed than to have a new joint contract. Why? They believe they will make more money and have a better quality of life than if they obtained a joint contract and had the Nicolau Award passed onto the Company.

For example, I spoke with a US Airways pilot today who is in his 20th year of service. This pilots career expectation pre-merger was to retire at age 60 flying the A330 number 41 on the seniority list. His Nicolau Award career expectation is to retire at age 60 at over 700 on the Nicolau Award seniority list flying an A320. How is that fair when the AWA pilots never had a widebody job in their pre-merger career expectation.

His lost income is a huge number due to the Nicolau Award, not to mention his reduced quality of life.

You are waisting your time trying to convince the US Airways pilots to accept the Nicolau Award so you can obtain a windfall and a joint contract because IT WILL NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE CAN DO ABOUT IT! Moreover, ALPA International is not going to forward the Nicolau Award to the company!

What is fair is to have separate contracts with separate operations that are permanent and provide scope, furlough, and whip saw protections, and this agreement follows any future mergers. Why? This preserves each pilot groups career expectations and provides an improved contract.

Again, your rhetoric and banter is like "blowing into the wind", and for the record, every time John McIlvenna speaks he just makes the East pilots angrier and increases their resolve to do anything and everything possible to prevent the Nicolau Award from ever being implemented.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[fatherabraham]

Wake up, you can't be that naive. This happens during mergers, every merger. How in the heck can you merge 2 major carriers and NOT have your career expectation change? IMPOSSIBLE! And history has shown how difficult it is integrating employees because of that fact alone.

Cactus,awa320 and likeminded,

Words unending. Always a counterpoint with empty words like so many today. Matters not if you sincerely address the issues affecting others nearly as much as using those words to prove your righteous opinion of the truth.
In my world (flawed as well) I try to get down to the basics on a complicated mess like this one. It truly is not just to factor in the multitude of rationalizations I have read on this board over the past couple months. For example: who bought who, financial strength, career expectations,mec stupidity/greed,# of BK, etc. etc. etc. Most all is a matter of luck/timing/mgt of which employees have little control.
Age on the other hand is not arbitrary. The fella above reaching #41 vs 700 is a FACT! His/her loss of income is a FACT! I and every rational person I know who is not affected as you are has no problem understanding this FACT.
Could use a thousands more words but already talking to myself about the foolishness of trying to communicate with the likes of you.
Fire away as as this is my only vain attempt at reason . You will have last word so enjoy
FA

 

[Tiger 1050]

AWA320,

What you and John McIlvenna do not get is that the US Airways pilots, to a man and woman, would rather work under LOA 93 and not let the Nicolau Award proceed than to have a new joint contract. Why? They believe they will make more money and have a better quality of life than if they obtained a joint contract and had the Nicolau Award passed onto the Company.

For example, I spoke with a US Airways pilot today who is in his 20th year of service. This pilots career expectation pre-merger was to retire at age 60 flying the A330 number 41 on the seniority list. His Nicolau Award career expectation is to retire at age 60 at over 700 on the Nicolau Award seniority list flying an A320. How is that fair when the AWA pilots never had a widebody job in their pre-merger career expectation.

His lost income is a huge number due to the Nicolau Award, not to mention his reduced quality of life.

You are waisting your time trying to convince the US Airways pilots to accept the Nicolau Award so you can obtain a windfall and a joint contract because IT WILL NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE CAN DO ABOUT IT! Moreover, ALPA International is not going to forward the Nicolau Award to the company!

What is fair is to have separate contracts with separate operations that are permanent and provide scope, furlough, and whip saw protections, and this agreement follows any future mergers. Why? This preserves each pilot groups career expectations and provides an improved contract.

Again, your rhetoric and banter is like "blowing into the wind", and for the record, every time John McIlvenna speaks he just makes the East pilots angrier and increases their resolve to do anything and everything possible to prevent the Nicolau Award from ever being implemented.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Are you the official spokesperson for the east pilots?

 

[Junebug172]

Junbug172,

Very chicky of you but you missed the R

WAAAARRR

Go get'em tiger!!!

:rant:

 

[Cactus737]

What you and John McIlvenna do not get is that the US Airways pilots, to a man and woman, would rather work under LOA 93 and not let the Nicolau Award proceed than to have a new joint contract. Why? They believe they will make more money and have a better quality of life than if they obtained a joint contract and had the Nicolau Award passed onto the Company.

Problem is, nothing that you or your MEC has said so far has come true.

But don't be so arrogant as to assume that those sound bites were directed at you. I think the whole industry is looking down their nose at US Airways pilots right now for holding an entire industry hostage from a much needed "gains" contract.

BTW - you're rolling the dice with separate ops. In theory, East attrition will create lots of movement, but that's assuming that the East fleet stays the same size.

For example, I spoke with a US Airways pilot today who is in his 20th year of service. This pilots career expectation pre-merger was to retire at age 60 flying the A330 number 41 on the seniority list. His Nicolau Award career expectation is to retire at age 60 at over 700 on the Nicolau Award seniority list flying an A320. How is that fair when the AWA pilots never had a widebody job in their pre-merger career expectation.

That pilot would not have had a job without this merger, and you know it.

BTW - you can keep the widebodies. Over 90% of all AWA pilots live west of the Mississippi, and we ain't commuting to some slum of an East coast city for a few bucks an hour. However, every time an ex-PSAer gets in my jumpseat out West here, they always ask when they might be able to bid Phoenix. I tell them that their MEC has plans for them to have a long commute for low wages.

His lost income is a huge number due to the Nicolau Award, not to mention his reduced quality of life.

That 20 year guy was probably near furlough if not on furlough at the time the merger was announced.

BTW - the ALPA proposed joint pay rates would have this guy making way more money as an FO than he will as a captain under LOA 93. Also, his forward movement onto widebodies will probably be minimally affected as most West pilots will want to stay West.

You are waisting your time trying to convince the US Airways pilots to accept the Nicolau Award so you can obtain a windfall and a joint contract because IT WILL NEVER, EVER HAPPEN AND THERE IS NOTHING YOU OR ANYBODY ELSE CAN DO ABOUT IT! Moreover, ALPA International is not going to forward the Nicolau Award to the company!

Again, you and your MEC are having a hard time convincing us that you're ever right about anything.

What is fair is to have separate contracts with separate operations that are permanent and provide scope, furlough, and whip saw protections, and this agreement follows any future mergers. Why? This preserves each pilot groups career expectations and provides an improved contract.

Good luck with that, I'm sure it will go as well as everything else your MEC has failed to achieve. BTW - why aren't you guys proposing a new arbitration instead of separate ops? Hmmm.

Again, your rhetoric and banter is like "blowing into the wind", and for the record, every time John McIlvenna speaks he just makes the East pilots angrier and increases their resolve to do anything and everything possible to prevent the Nicolau Award from ever being implemented.

You are very defensive for somebody is so sure of themselves.

 

[nostradamus]

Problem is, nothing that you or your MEC has said so far has come true.

But don't be so arrogant as to assume that those sound bites were directed at you. I think the whole industry is looking down their nose at US Airways pilots right now for holding an entire industry hostage from a much needed "gains"

BTW - you can keep the widebodies. Over 90% of all AWA pilots live west of the Mississippi, and we ain't commuting to some slum of an East coast city for a few bucks an hour.

How soon you forget.
"US Airways pilots were enjoying industry-leading pay, a defined pension plan (something we never had), work rules -- everything"

"I made mine to work at America West, which, by the way, has historically been the LOWEST paid airline in the U.S. The East pilots have been paid far and above what America West pilots have been paid over the same period of time doing the same job."

Article on America West pilots undercutting

"we ain't commuting to some slum of an East coast city "

Yeah, right.

Nice comment on PHL and east coast cities you have to work with. Shows your thoughts of imperialism.

 

[767jetz]

Most all is a matter of luck/timing/mgt of which employees have little control.
Age on the other hand is not arbitrary. The fella above reaching #41 vs 700 is a FACT! His/her loss of income is a FACT! I and every rational person I know who is not affected as you are has no problem understanding this FACT.

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Every person I know DOES have a problem understanding your "fact" (ie: opinion).

Age IS arbitrary, and so is DOH when applied across company lines. There are plenty of older pilots hired after younger ones due to prior career choices. Are you suggesting that all seniority be based on age then? I've never heard that one before.

No one expects to keep their seniority number when they resign from one airline to work for another. If ALPA ever creates a national seniority list and pay scale, that might change. But that's not the world we live in right now. I sure would have loved to keep my years of service at TWA when I left to accept a job at United.

Almost all pilots with the exception of the few thousand East pilots understand and accept the concept of slotting and relative seniority based on what you bring to the table. They also understand the difference between attrition from the captains seat as opposed to attrition from furlough or the right seat of a 737/A320. Most pilots with the exception of the East pilots do not feel their careers are a result of luck of the draw. Most understand that it is about choices.

Please, FA... you do not speak for the majority.

 

[Cactus737]

"we ain't commuting to some slum of an East coast city "

Yeah, right.

That is the fear over there isn't it? That every single West pilot will migrate East and take *your* job? I assure you, the guys who bid under 50 lines out here aren't too thrilled about having one of your San Diego PSA guys come to PHX senior to him. Certainly our top guys had a realistic expectation of remaining the top guys in PHX, and our senior FO's had a realistic expectation of being able to hold captain in PHX. We're going to lose that with this award. But you don't see us wanting to throw money in the toilet over it.

If that's what the fear is, then why hasn't your MEC just proposed base protections instead of separate ops? A simple straw poll over here would certainly lodge no objection to it. No, instead it's - separate ops, no contract, burn the place to the ground, etc. Every day I become more convinced this is about you wanting to be *right* than it is about advancing careers and increasing compensation.

Nice comment on PHL and east coast cities you have to work with. Shows your thoughts of imperialism.

It's more representative of my desire to avoid being there. I've been to Philly - nice place to visit - good cheesesteaks - but you can keep it. I like it here out West - I'm from here and have lived here most of my life. If I want to go to Europe, I'll go there on vacation.

 

[Hawkhunter]

Wheeee we hit the lottery boys and girls and got a dollar, think I'll spend mine on a snikersbar.

At 254 sheep boy you will by more than one!

 

[Hawkhunter]

Sorry, but I beg to differ. Every person I know DOES have a problem understanding your "fact" (ie: opinion).

Age IS arbitrary, and so is DOH when applied across company lines. There are plenty of older pilots hired after younger ones due to prior career choices. Are you suggesting that all seniority be based on age then? I've never heard that one before.

No one expects to keep their seniority number when they resign from one airline to work for another. If ALPA ever creates a national seniority list and pay scale, that might change. But that's not the world we live in right now. I sure would have loved to keep my years of service at TWA when I left to accept a job at United.

Almost all pilots with the exception of the few thousand East pilots understand and accept the concept of slotting and relative seniority based on what you bring to the table. They also understand the difference between attrition from the captains seat as opposed to attrition from furlough or the right seat of a 737/A320. Most pilots with the exception of the East pilots do not feel their careers are a result of luck of the draw. Most understand that it is about choices.

Please, FA... you do not speak for the majority.

BS, BS, BS and more BS. Also blah, blah, blah and more blah. You dont even have a dog in this fight so get a life.