Money lost forever

[electricjet98]

In May 2007, US Airways senior management presented their first comprehensive economic contract proposal to the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). While this proposal was recognized as inadequate for all East and West US Airways pilots and contained many concessions to fund the rate line, it now seems absurd that the East MEC is lobbying for ONLY pay parity instead of negotiating significant economic gains that we are all losing each day that we continue without a new contract.

The following is the approximate economic gain that the average East pilot would receive under management’s first proposal*:

Captain: $28,975
First Officer: $15,766

These figures include an additional 10 days of vacation for pilots at the top of the accrual scale. Of course, this does not include the substantially improved work rules East pilots would gain as well


Some on the west side hope you don't sign a new contract for years; the added expense would really cut into our profit sharing $$$$

 

[AWA320]

In May 2007, US Airways senior management presented their first comprehensive economic contract proposal to the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC). While this proposal was recognized as inadequate for all East and West US Airways pilots and contained many concessions to fund the rate line, it now seems absurd that the East MEC is lobbying for ONLY pay parity instead of negotiating significant economic gains that we are all losing each day that we continue without a new contract.

The following is the approximate economic gain that the average East pilot would receive under management’s first proposal*:

Captain: $28,975
First Officer: $15,766

These figures include an additional 10 days of vacation for pilots at the top of the accrual scale. Of course, this does not include the substantially improved work rules East pilots would gain as well
Some on the west side hope you don't sign a new contract for years; the added expense would really cut into our profit sharing $$$$

Almost 30K for capts and 16K for F/Os are you kidding me? They don't want that they love LOA93. Haven't you been reading? They claim that they can stay under that BK contract until their amendable date at the end of 2010!! Ahhh but here's the catcher it's going to be a lot longer than that, you see Douglas said JOINT contract and without one side it doesn't work for them. I can't get my contract now so they won't get theirs later. It's called one good turns deserves another!!!

 

[EastUS]

Almost 30K for capts and 16K for F/Os are you kidding me? . Haven't you been reading? They claim that they can stay under that BK contract until their amendable date at the end of 2010!! Ahhh but here's the catcher it's going to be a lot longer than that, you see Douglas said JOINT contract and without one side it doesn't work for them. I can't get my contract now so they won't get theirs later. It's called one good turns deserves another!!!

"They don't want that they love LOA93" Hmmm..such certainly beats having hopelessly incompetent morons like yourself in even the right seat for any trip I'd waaay far more prefer a bag of actual sandHeck..I'd pay a few thousand every month to avoid having your sort in any cockpit I'm in

Unless you fly ten times better than you evidently are able to
"think"...I'm fine with LOA93 'till hell freezes over..if it keeps your "sort" out of my working enviornment Full offence meant: By my honest estimation: You're the sort, that if ever confronted by "Waah Momma!!..The sky's greeen and the earth's blue" would panic and DIE..and be of no use to me in any way, in any serious emergency. It's my full asumption that you cannot even fly aerobatics to ANY extent, and your "emergency"...lol..."training" amounts to what's been spoon fed you via airlines =lowest cost/no effort/no gain/etc. .......I'd far prefer the bag of sand. You've far too plentifull adolescent behavioral issues methinks..and far too less actual "training"..as is typical of your ilk.

True confessions time AWA320...you're really just an idiot Troll-Bot sent from Alpo to check the windage hereabout?..No one can actually be as otherwise "simple" as you seem

 

[hp_fa]

Almost 30K for capts and 16K for F/Os are you kidding me? They don't want that they love LOA93. Haven't you been reading? They claim that they can stay under that BK contract until their amendable date at the end of 2010!! Ahhh but here's the catcher it's going to be a lot longer than that, you see Douglas said JOINT contract and without one side it doesn't work for them. I can't get my contract now so they won't get theirs later. It's called one good turns deserves another!!!

I am guessing that a 2010 amenable date means no new contract until 2012 at the earliest. Probably 2013.

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

As you have been told over-and-over again the vast majority of the East pilots would prefer to live under LOA 93 and prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented than to agree to a joint contract and to have the Nicolau Award passed to the company. Why? They are better off economically, they keep their seniority, and they have an improved quality of life.

The rank-and-file has never had so much solidarity than they do over the Nicolau Award.

Finally, the US Airways ALPA Negotiating Committee is only permitted to negotiate per the folliwng resolution:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC endorses the concept of equivalent contracts (separate contracts of comparable value for US Airways and America West pilots), with separate operations, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that such separate operations are to be permanent in nature and include preemptive contract language to assure their continued application during any future merger involving both the US Airways and America West pilots, and

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC authorizes the US Airways members of the NC to pursue an equivalent contract utilizing all necessary ALPA resources, including the assistance of the Rice Committee.

Finally, if the AWA pilots want a pay raise I suggest two options: Open up Section 6 negotiations and/or work on a separate contract/separate operations agreement like the one now required by the East MEC.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

 

[Junebug172]

Edited

 

[Junebug172]

I can't believe how quickly some of you east idiots grab onto crap like pay parity and separate operations out of desperation.

Think about it.

Do you honestly think Doug is going to run two separate airlines to make you whiny jerkoffs happy? Please. He made money running us separately and with a crap operation and knows he can make gobs more running as a combined ops.

Let's see how long you keep talking after September.

I'll be the first one to rub it in.

Grampy, you don't believe in that BS, do you?

Please say no.
:mf_boff:

 

[EastUS]

I can't believe how quickly some of you east idiots grab onto crap like pay parity and separate operations out of desperation.

Think about it.

Do you honestly think Doug is going to run two separate airlines to make you whiny jerkoffs happy?

Hmmm..let's reasonably postulate the following:

1) The jerkoffs in Tempe have zero concern for ANYTHING other than their money, and pathetically misplaced, and misshapen egos.....We good so far? Do the sad "Math" = One's a practicing alcoholic..the other's a "wannabee" from the frickin' USAF Academy...that shirked flying, never fought, actually never did anything...other than..ummm..whatever he supposedly does There ain't no "Adult Leadership" to be found in these parts.

2) They'll cheerfully sellout/do anything to anyone/etc to advance their "Holy Cause" = "More money for ME!!!"

3) They're looking no farther forward than the next quarter/the next sell out/"merger"/whatever..prior to slithering off under freshly made corporate tombstones.

4) There actually..as I'd guess..exists NO "Long Term Plan"....well then, all they're trying to do is avoid total meltdown for a short period of time.

4) Anything's possible...and seperate ops would seem very logical at this point in time.

These people seemingly have no clue, nor any notion of running a long term op here....I've seen this movie many times.

The ONLY possible concern for them is having it "under one roof" for increased value in sales...they've no reason to fret over this if it's to be sold off/out piecemeal.....They've a "labor monster" of biblical proportions..and their best shot at maximizing their personal "take" is to simply unload this place, in whatever fashion...and soon.

No offence meant, in all earnestness...But: The "West" seems to have some bizarre fantasy that the clowns in Tempe actually "care" about this fiasco...Trust me = They don't...this place will not exist in it's current form in a year-two tops...it's "Just Business".

 

[Cactus737]

As you have been told over-and-over again the vast majority of the East pilots would prefer to live under LOA 93 and prevent the Nicolau Award from being implemented than to agree to a joint contract and to have the Nicolau Award passed to the company. Why? They are better off economically, they keep their seniority, and they have an improved quality of life.

Maybe, maybe not. Right now there's not enough money on the table for West to ratify. If Parker ponies up, we'll see how many East pilots start picketing their MEC office (again) so that they can vote for it.

BTW - looking at the ALPA proposals, an East FO will make more money as an FO under the combined CBA than he will as an LOA 93 captain. But - this isn't about the money right? We'll see.

The rank-and-file has never had so much solidarity than they do over the Nicolau Award.

And West has never more unified in thinking that the East got all of the benefit out of this merger, and that they should have been left to liquidate. What's your point?

Finally, the US Airways ALPA Negotiating Committee is only permitted to negotiate per the folliwng resolution:

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC endorses the concept of equivalent contracts (separate contracts of comparable value for US Airways and America West pilots), with separate operations, and

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that such separate operations are to be permanent in nature and include preemptive contract language to assure their continued application during any future merger involving both the US Airways and America West pilots, and

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC authorizes the US Airways members of the NC to pursue an equivalent contract utilizing all necessary ALPA resources, including the assistance of the Rice Committee.

Sorry lady, but your MEC signed the transition agreement as did ALPA. Breach it and you're toast.

Finally, if the AWA pilots want a pay raise I suggest two options: Open up Section 6 negotiations and/or work on a separate contract/separate operations agreement like the one now required by the East MEC.

You can forget about a joint separate ops agreement. If we go seek a raise on our own, it won't have anything to do with the East. If you want to remain separate under LOA 93 like you profess, then you'll need to keep your word (which I know is a difficult concept for East MEC followers). The West pilots have already given up too much in this merger.

 

[EastUS]

Maybe, maybe not. Right now there's not enough money on the table for West to ratify. If Parker ponies up, we'll see how many East pilots start picketing their MEC office (again) so that they can vote for it.

You're flat-out joking I assume???

"The West pilots have already given up too much in this merger."
Well..if you weren't intentionally joking...I still thank you for the laughs

 

[Barberpole]

By my honest estimation: You're the sort, that if ever confronted by "Waah Momma!!..The sky's greeen and the earth's blue" would panic and DIE..and be of no use to me in any way, in any serious emergency. It's my full asumption that you cannot even fly aerobatics to ANY extent, and your "emergency"...lol..."training" amounts to what's been spoon fed you via airlines =lowest cost/no effort/no gain/etc. .......I'd far prefer the bag of sand. You've far too plentifull adolescent behavioral issues methinks..and far too less actual "training"..as is typical of your ilk.

True confessions time AWA320...you're really just an idiot Troll-Bot sent from Alpo to check the windage hereabout?..No one can actually be as otherwise "simple" as you seem

What in the world are you talking about??? You are embarrassing yourself and your peers.

 

[AWA320]

"They don't want that they love LOA93" Hmmm..such certainly beats having hopelessly incompetent morons like yourself in even the right seat for any trip I'd waaay far more prefer a bag of actual sandHeck..I'd pay a few thousand every month to avoid having your sort in any cockpit I'm in

Unless you fly ten times better than you evidently are able to
"think"...I'm fine with LOA93 'till hell freezes over..if it keeps your "sort" out of my working enviornment Full offence meant: By my honest estimation: You're the sort, that if ever confronted by "Waah Momma!!..The sky's greeen and the earth's blue" would panic and DIE..and be of no use to me in any way, in any serious emergency. It's my full asumption that you cannot even fly aerobatics to ANY extent, and your "emergency"...lol..."training" amounts to what's been spoon fed you via airlines =lowest cost/no effort/no gain/etc. .......I'd far prefer the bag of sand. You've far too plentifull adolescent behavioral issues methinks..and far too less actual "training"..as is typical of your ilk.

True confessions time AWA320...you're really just an idiot Troll-Bot sent from Alpo to check the windage hereabout?..No one can actually be as otherwise "simple" as you seem

Drinking and keyboard don't mix!! I have no idea what that jibberish you said was!! You seem to want a flying contest to see who the best pilot is however you offer no means of how it would be done!! I am game if you can figure it out.

ALPA troll bot?? Ahh I like that one may I borrow it??

You will soon be JR to me my friend so don't get too high and mighty...

 

[AWA320]

Finally, if the AWA pilots want a pay raise I suggest two options: Open up Section 6 negotiations and/or work on a separate contract/separate operations agreement like the one now required by the East MEC.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

Not gonna happen my friend. I will watch as you bases shrink and more flying comes west. You guys just don't get it do you? You can demand single ops all you want and it means squat to the company. If single ops were in the plan that's what would have happened. Your MEC is run by idiots on a fools mission! When are you people going to learn??? It really pains me to see you sheep led to your own destruction...

 

[Junebug172]

Not gonna happen my friend. I will watch as you bases shrink and more flying comes west.

Single certificate in September + AQP = AWA320 one smart cookie

:groovy:

 

[USA320Pilot]

AWA320,

I sincerely doubt that management will downsize the East that made obout $300 million in Q2 and transfer the flying to the West who lost about $25 million in Q2. If anything you could create an argument that the flying should be transferred east.

I believe the AWA pilots need to understand the unwaivering East pilot resolve over the Nicolau Award because the US Airways pilots will do anything, I mean anything to stop its implementation.

Regards,

USA320Pilot