How UNSAFE is it to have to fly to Europe on a Daily Call?

[jbragg476]

Ok, if you are like me and get up early in the morning or like those who don't sleep well at night, how unsafe is it that we are sometimes called by daily to fly to Europe? Especially being on call 24/6.

Some people love going. Good for you. You can have it.
Others take a No Contact or a Personal Day.

Well not me. Seeing as our union wont help with the matter, and since we are CERTIFIED by the FAA, only we know what we are good for. For me, I am unsafe when I am on call all day and have to get called to Europe THAT DAY. I will not take a no contact for it, nor be charged a personal day.

I will simply tell the scheduler I am unsafe/fatigued and that I will fill out my SER report and mark the box that indicates so. This is the only thing we have as reserves and we should begin to take advantage of it. When it comes to safety, you know what is best for you. Not some scheduler in PIT.

I know they are only doing their jobs trying to get the position covered and I respect that and will be polite and courteous. I will note their name and time of date they called and indicate it on the form and use the fax number on the bottom to send it to PHX (where btw, reserves are not on call 24/6)

Ok enough of my rant. Thanks for listening

 

[EMBFA]

Last summer was crazy for PHL F/As... the phone rings at 3am, you're going to Barcelona or Athens in an hour and a half. That's a hour and a half bed-to-galley, to work a 7-12 hour flight with 200 something furious people. What un-drugged human being can do that? The union does side letters all the time, I don't understand why they can't divide reserve into two shifts.

 

[Travelpro72]

It doesn't even have to be a recrew at 3am for me. If I have been on duty for more than 24 hours and I get called to do a flight to Europe I'm not going. PERIOD. I have been up at 5am checking catcrew to see where my # is for the day and my sleep is broken. I have to keep an eye on catcrew all damn day only to be called for a flight leaving that evening with NO rest? You don't know when to sleep while being on reserve. It's NO secret to the company and it's NO secret to the union. I'm sure it's NO secret to the FAA but we know government. We'll have the 24 hour rule changed by the time we do our moon trip on the space shuttle. I'm OVER it and will call out fatigued each and EVERY time for a trans atlantic trip unless I'm called daily in the morning for it and can plan a nap in the early evening accordingly.

 

[N903AW]

Honestly, I don't know how you put up with your RV system! On call for 24 hours?!? That's horrendous!

Although I am not on reserve, I know many who are over here. Although the RV system here is by no means perfect (is there even such a thing in this industry?), the time paramaters that one is on call is definitely better structured. They have twelve* hour blocks when on call at home designated as Standby A, B, or C and will know the day prior as to which block they will be on call. Thus they can schedule their personal rest accordingly. They also have a minimum of two-hour call out to their assignment.

Why is it so difficult for the MEC on the East to get an agreement with the Company to provide your reserves with 12* hour blocks of "on-call" time? Surely this cannot be an impossible task for your AFA MEC to accomplish!!

* Edited. I just spoke with my roommate who is a reserve and standby blocks at home are in 12 hour increments, AM, midday, and night.

 

[jbragg476]

because they don't care about RSV's. It's all about the top so many %

 

[jbragg476]

And that silly bid sheet. And SAP, and secondary, and...jesus how may times do you get to create your schedule??? Rediculous!

 

[Travelpro72]

Well favoring the b/h's is beside the point for me. I don't see WHY the company wouldn't agree to a side letter to change the hours on duty for a reserve. It couldn't possibly change the monetary value of the contract. It's about safety and "Doing the right thing". This also applies to our 1:30 minute call outs. It is unrealistic to be there in that amount of time depending on where you are. If your in the catchment area I believe 120 surface miles but it's heavy traffic hour in PHL you can forget it. Your not making it.

 

[sharktooth]

And that silly bid sheet. And SAP, and secondary, and...jesus how may times do you get to create your schedule??? Rediculous!

Actually, it is because you do not understand that the major part of the reserve problem at US east is no cap on flying.

I believe staffing is predicated on pretty close to each blockholder flying, on average, 85 hours per month. When a significant number of blockholders fly 100 hours plus per month, many reserves don't fly at all. That is a major source of your discontent. Blaming it on unrelated options is wasting everyones time.

Also, as FAA "certified airmen", you should initiate some sort of duty limiting device for reserves, perhaps nine hours pre-designated rest on any 24 hour period, like the pilots. As "certified airmen", you have certain duties you are responsible for and expecting one to accomplish those duties with no rest is pretty pathetic on the part of the company as well as employees you interface with.

Quit blaming those responsible for your contract like (former MEC president). I've even heard people blamed who had absolutely nothing to do with your reserve system. Get over it. She is gone.

Two issues for your focus. Get going. Change both items now. Cap flying and protect reserves.

 

[diamondcutter]

Ok, if you are like me and get up early in the morning or like those who don't sleep well at night, how unsafe is it that we are sometimes called by daily to fly to Europe? Especially being on call 24/6.

Some people love going. Good for you. You can have it.
Others take a No Contact or a Personal Day.

Well not me. Seeing as our union wont help with the matter, and since we are CERTIFIED by the FAA, only we know what we are good for. For me, I am unsafe when I am on call all day and have to get called to Europe THAT DAY. I will not take a no contact for it, nor be charged a personal day.

I will simply tell the scheduler I am unsafe/fatigued and that I will fill out my SER report and mark the box that indicates so. This is the only thing we have as reserves and we should begin to take advantage of it. When it comes to safety, you know what is best for you. Not some scheduler in PIT.

I know they are only doing their jobs trying to get the position covered and I respect that and will be polite and courteous. I will note their name and time of date they called and indicate it on the form and use the fax number on the bottom to send it to PHX (where btw, reserves are not on call 24/6)

Ok enough of my rant. Thanks for listening

You have to remember the UNION cant do a damn thing...we have a closed contract. And yes this totally sucks.

 

[Travelpro72]

You CAN call out fatigued and I will do it EACH and EVERY time. I know we're in a closed contract but there is NO reason why the company couldn't say OK to something regarding safety like REST. THIS is BS an. Unless It's future or your called early in the day so no way.

 

[diamondcutter]

You CAN call out fatigued and I will do it EACH and EVERY time. I know we're in a closed contract but there is NO reason why the company couldn't say OK to something regarding safety like REST. THIS is BS an. Unless It's future or your called early in the day so no way.

If you have a direct order from a sched supervisor and the the inflight supervisor and still say you are fatigued ...You will be suspended . I know this for a fact . So just be careful and take the no contact. It sucks that we have to play this game. The Co. wants to side letter to this issue.

 

[diamondcutter]

If you have a direct order from a sched supervisor and the the inflight supervisor and still say you are fatigued ...You will be suspended . I know this for a fact . So just be careful and take the no contact. It sucks that we have to play this game. The Co. wants to side letter to this issue.

Sorry I mean the Co. does not want any side letters on rsv. issues!

 

[jbragg476]

Ok, if it is a safety issue, then how can you be suspended by the company? I would think the FAA would side with you especially since you have no set rest period

 

[beachboy]

Only the duty supervisor (aka inflight) can give you a "direct work order" and yes folks that is serious. Scheduling is there to put a payroll number on a flight not be your supervisor. It's all numbers to them like data processors. On that note don't be telling scheduling your business when you are sick or personal! I hear some people calling in with all this jabber about how ache they are or how Johnny has chickenpox, no! State you are sick and done. But, if you are fatigued then you are fatigued. Don't play this card unless you really are and ready to go the mile because they will try taking it there. After doing that your FIRST call should be to the FAA and then to your union representative. I would even go directly to the doctor the next day and explain how you have been up and they called you out with little rest and have him document it. Then you need to fill out a Cabin Safety Report (or whatever they call the bloody thing these days). It truly is a shame but there are instances where you are unsafe to perform your duties on this antiquated system. Don't be intimidated, just be honest about your mental and physical state.

 

[jbragg476]

The SER report has a section on the back that says human factors and a box marked Fatigued/Lack of Awareness.