IAM & AFA file for elections at DL

[bagboy]

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Kev3188 & bagboy,

"You both admit that during the AMFA strike at NWA, the IAM was a SCAB Union; use the same rules for everybody: once a SCAB, always a SCAB."

I crossed no line, did the same work the day after the strike as the day I was hired. With your logic the whole airline is a SCAB airline. Bunch the lot of them with the actions of the few. The AMFA spit in the eye of the IAM and told us they would go it alone. There were many printed communications posted between the two parties.

"You both attempt to mitigate the SCAB status by pointing to the removal of "leaders" that led locals during the SCAB work."

Yeah, so. See above. You know little of how I handled my bossiness on the local level.

"Neither of you make a case that the IAM will not SCAB future work done by another Union on the same property."

Can't answer that one. I wont have another run at this as I have left the company for greener pastures.

"I am a forced dues payor to the most ineffective, most effective concessionary Union in the airline business, the TWU: having said that, I would still prefer being non-union to being an industry busiting member of a SCAB represented by the IAM."

Was this job a union job when you started? Were you informed of this when you applied? Did you know that there are many other non-union jobs out there, airline or other? They may not pay what you are accustomed to or give you the same benefits that your family depends on but they are there.

 

[Kev3188]

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Kev3188 & bagboy,

...use the same rules for everybody...

Actually, the rules *weren't* the same for everybody.

Some stations had both AMT's and Cleaners. Some only AMT's. And for the vast majority of stations on the system, there were neither. In those cities, Ramp agents or CSA's historically performed the work.

In cities in the latter category, it was business as usual on August 21st 2005. To muddy the waters further, the same language regarding pushbacks, etc. that was in the AMFA CBA was-and still is- in the CBA covering the ramp as well.

 

[Boomer]

Actually, the rules *weren't* the same for everybody.

Some stations had both AMT's and Cleaners. Some only AMT's. And for the vast majority of stations on the system, there were neither. In those cities, Ramp agents or CSA's historically performed the work.

In cities in the latter category, it was business as usual on August 21st 2005. To muddy the waters further, the same language regarding pushbacks, etc. that was in the AMFA CBA was-and still is- in the CBA covering the ramp as well.

If, on the day before AMFA went on strike, they performed the work and the IAM did not: the day after the strike went into place, and the IAM then performed the work, the IAM SCABBED AMFA work.

Anyone at DAL should consider long and hard how far the IAM is willing to go for your dues money. Because when it came time for one union to legally honor another unions' picket line and refuse to perform struck work: the IAM mouthpieces here on this bb did not man-up and admit that the IAM scabbed AMFA at NWA; they Clintoned up about the dress.

The former heads of NWA, that are now leading DAL, and their appearance at an IAM COnvention as Guest Speakers are all of the DNA evidence you need to know about the special relationship between the IAM and Management.

Don't get introduced to the cigar: don't vote IAM.

 

[700UW]

The company imposed a new CBA when AMFA struck, the R&D language was removed and the language was all ready in the Ramp CBA, for them to do R&D work, so how is it struck work when it was no longer then the AMFA CBA?

ALPA nor the PFAA honored your picket line either and the IBT represented pilots at Champion Air, flew flights for NW during your strike.

I do believe AMFA told the other groups to work.

 

[bagboy]

"the IAM mouthpieces here on this bb did not man-up and admit that the IAM scabbed AMFA at NWA;"

I don't think you were paying attention. I don't work for Delta. At the company I do work for I am represented by the IBEW. It is odd that I am since I no linger work in the industry but what strikes me even funnier is how someone like you could be so against the IAM. Come out with it. What's your angle? What union are you pushing?

PS. I didn't SCAB AMFA work. Didn't work in a station that had mechanics. I know you knew that, just saying in case you missed it.

 

[Kev3188]

If, on the day before AMFA went on strike, they performed the work and the IAM did not: the day after the strike went into place, and the IAM then performed the work, the IAM SCABBED AMFA work.

This is what people are trying to tell you. In most cities, the IAM was already doing the work. The work covered was also in both union's CBAs. I'm not saying it shouldn't have happened differently, but that's how it went. I personally did not do any of the work in question (we had AMT's at my then station, but not cleaners), but that was a decision I made on my own.

I'll also remind you that your TWU continued to work at NW during the strike as well.

 

[Boomer]

bagboy
Posted Yesterday, 01:32 AM
I don't think you were paying attention. I don't work for Delta. At the company I do work for I am represented by the IBEW. It is odd that I am since I no linger work in the industry but what strikes me even funnier is how someone like you could be so against the IAM. Come out with it. What's your angle? What union are you pushing?

PS. I didn't SCAB AMFA work. Didn't work in a station that had mechanics. I know you knew that, just saying in case you missed it.
______________________________________________________________________________
Kev3188
Posted Yesterday, 09:06
This is what people are trying to tell you. In most cities, the IAM was already doing the work. The work covered was also in both union's CBAs. I'm not saying it shouldn't have happened differently, but that's how it went. I personally did not do any of the work in question (we had AMT's at my then station, but not cleaners), but that was a decision I made on my own.

I'll also remind you that your TWU continued to work at NW during the strike as well.
_______________________________________________________________________________

Boomer reply:

In none of your replies have your ever denied that the IAM performed AMFA struck work during the period in question.

In all of your replies you basically repeat the Clintonian reply to the meaning of what, "is," is.

Irrespective of your current employment, or your current labor representative: the IAM is a SCAB union in that it performed Unionized Struck Work in accordance with the respective legal obligations under the Railway Labor Act which allow the option of "self-help" for Unions under the RLA.

The presence of the former NWA Manangement officers at your IAM Convention tells the tale: they just hope you did not keep the dress.

 

[eolesen]

I guess the non-union supporters dont realize that unionized workers are more productive and earn more than their non-union counterparts.

I'll agree they may earn more, but how do you figure they're more productive?.... The fact I can cross utilize a non-union employee to perform multiple functions would imply the exact opposite.

 

[Kev3188]

Boomer reply:

In none of your replies have your ever denied that the IAM performed AMFA struck work during the period in question.

What's to deny? In some cities it absolutely happened. In others, it didn't.

What people have been trying to explain to you is that there was more to it than that, and a lot of things worked against AMFA.

If you really want to delve further into this, go through and read some of the posts that have been merged from the old NW board.

I'll save you some time:

1. The IAM's action (or lack thereof) set labor back 10 years, IMO. Almost-but not quite- as bad as the TWU's ratification of the B scale.

2. The leadership in charge at the time had an agenda against AMFA, acted on it, and for the most part were summarily dumped by the membership at the nearest opportunity.

Irrespective of your current employment, or your current labor representative: the IAM is a SCAB union in that it performed Unionized Struck Work in accordance with the respective legal obligations under the Railway Labor Act which allow the option of "self-help" for Unions under the RLA.

That's another problem (and subject): The IAM (and ALPA, PFAA, NAMA, ATSA, and the TWU) bought into the argument that AMFA's walking wasn't a "legal" strike....

 

[bagboy]

Boomer, you still avoid my request. What's your angle? What union are you pushing? Come out with it.

 

[Boomer]

What's to deny? In some cities it absolutely happened. In others, it didn't.

What people have been trying to explain to you is that there was more to it than that, and a lot of things worked against AMFA.

If you really want to delve further into this, go through and read some of the posts that have been merged from the old NW board.

I'll save you some time:

1. The IAM's action (or lack thereof) set labor back 10 years, IMO. Almost-but not quite- as bad as the TWU's ratification of the B scale.

2. The leadership in charge at the time had an agenda against AMFA, acted on it, and for the most part were summarily dumped by the membership at the nearest opportunity.




That's another problem (and subject): The IAM (and ALPA, PFAA, NAMA, ATSA, and the TWU) bought into the argument that AMFA's walking wasn't a "legal" strike....

Boomer, you still avoid my request. What's your angle? What union are you pushing? Come out with it.

Kev3188,
Thankyou for manning up and stating that the IAM SCABBED AMFA work during an RLA sanctioned resort to self-help. It is only by exposing the hypocrisy inside the AFL-CIO that any of us will ever have any hope of first stenching the blood loss and then beginning the process towards accountable Unionism that results in better wages, working hours and conditions of employment.

The IAM must pay a price that goes beyond the simple removal of officers that engaged in petty revenge because they were ousted by AMFA at NWA and therefore engaged in a collaborative effort with NWA Management to undermine and break a legal strike: they must continue to shrink and become ever more irrelevant in that they failed to acknowledge the degree to which every union is inextricably linked to the efforts of all unions. The IAM should never be voted in at DAL because they are still linked with the former management team from NWA that now run DAL: they still invite them to their conventions, and, they still show up.

If I was thinking of voting in a Union: would voting for a bunch of SCABS that are inexticably tied to breaking another airline union be my choice as my sole voice to represent the sum total of my career aspirations? NOT!

Having been a member of the TWU, I can tell you that it will be a great day for organized labor when the TWU is removed from the airline industry; and, I hope the IAM preceeds them.

Fraternally,
Boomer

PS. bagboy,
You have still not come to the table to admit that what the IAM did at NWA was anathema to Unionism...read the above and see if you can figure out what my angle is: then go wash your dress.

 

[700UW]

Fact AMFA strikes.

Fact all other unions, IAM, PFAA (AMFA sister union), ALPA cross picket lines.

IBT represented pilots fly replacement flights for NW via Champion Air.

NWA imposes new CBA on AMFA, removing R&D work, FACT.

Fact, R&D work language all ready in IAM CBA.

Fact before the strike system wide IAM did more R&D and ancillary work than AMFA.

 

[tech2101]

Fact AMFA strikes.

Fact all other unions, IAM, PFAA (AMFA sister union), ALPA cross picket lines.

IBT represented pilots fly replacement flights for NW via Champion Air.

NWA imposes new CBA on AMFA, removing R&D work, FACT.

Fact, R&D work language all ready in IAM CBA.

Fact before the strike system wide IAM did more R&D and ancillary work than AMFA.

Fact: One day I am pushing back aircraft as is in my scope of work. (All R&D work is done by mechanic's at any station that has maintenance located there.)

Fact: Next day I am outside the fence carrying a picket line due to a legal strike, and watch my IAM represented ramp guy doing the job I did the previous day (after walking by me on the picket line, giving me a big thumbs up) :angry: .

You can say that the new imposed contract removed that work all you want. That happens in every strike/lockout and you know it. That is how the company justifies the use of scab labor.

You know the IAM people doing that work were performing struck work. Stop trying to justify it. It is not becoming of you.

 

[jimntx]

Well, if this were Voltaire's Candide and we were living in the best of all possible worlds, then all this ranting about other unions doing struck work and crossing picket lines would be productive. However, we are not and it is not.

The truth is that unionism died a long time ago. When I was growing up in Birmingham, AL in the 50's and the coal and iron ore mines and the steel mills were still operating, no one crossed a picket line, period. (Except maybe an ambulance.) The strike could be by the office janitors at the steel mill office, but that was good enough. A union brother was a union brother. End of discussion.

In this day and age, the great majority of people including union members have a "me first" mentality that says "I'm with you, but I have a mortgage to pay and a car payment to make, and I want to go on that Caribbean cruise next summer; so, I'm afraid I'm going to be forced to cross your picket line." Therefore, you are going to have to risk standing alone for principle and a better contract and working conditions. And, you can be pleasantly surprised if someone not in your union decides to support your strike by not crossing.

The behavior of passengers on the airplane is a microcosm of U.S. society today. "I'm going to put all of my carryons in the overhead because I was here first, and I don't want the space under my seat for anything but my bare feet. The cabin temperature needs to be adjusted to my personal comfort even though I came on the airplane half-naked. I have to be first getting off the airplane because I have a tight connection (translated into the English, I want to stop at Starbucks on the way to my next flight) ; so, you have to make a PA and tell everyone else to remain seated until I get off."

 

[tech2101]

Well, if this were Voltaire's Candide and we were living in the best of all possible worlds, then all this ranting about other unions doing struck work and crossing picket lines would be productive. However, we are not and it is not.

The truth is that unionism died a long time ago. When I was growing up in Birmingham, AL in the 50's and the coal and iron ore mines and the steel mills were still operating, no one crossed a picket line, period. (Except maybe an ambulance.) The strike could be by the office janitors at the steel mill office, but that was good enough. A union brother was a union brother. End of discussion.

In this day and age, the great majority of people including union members have a "me first" mentality that says "I'm with you, but I have a mortgage to pay and a car payment to make, and I want to go on that Caribbean cruise next summer; so, I'm afraid I'm going to be forced to cross your picket line." Therefore, you are going to have to risk standing alone for principle and a better contract and working conditions. And, you can be pleasantly surprised if someone not in your union decides to support your strike by not crossing.

The behavior of passengers on the airplane is a microcosm of U.S. society today. "I'm going to put all of my carryons in the overhead because I was here first, and I don't want the space under my seat for anything but my bare feet. The cabin temperature needs to be adjusted to my personal comfort even though I came on the airplane half-naked. I have to be first getting off the airplane because I have a tight connection (translated into the English, I want to stop at Starbucks on the way to my next flight) ; so, you have to make a PA and tell everyone else to remain seated until I get off."

LMAO.

So true Jim. Sad, but true.