iam twu alliance vote

[700UW]

 
swamt, it is true.
 
The upcoming vote this membership is going to take isn't a question on whether the membership wants the IAM/TWU to form an alliance, that has already happened without the membership voting.
 
The IAM/TWU alliance will file a petition for representation with the NMB, and if there are no intervenors then the only selections will be IAM/TWU - Other/write in - no union.
 
Again - the alliance is already formed - thats NOT what the upcoming election is for.
 
It will be a representational election, and it will be conducted by the NMB.

Thats what I have been saying and he is calling me a liar.
 
But hey he knows more than the people that wrote it and lawyers that went over it, and both groups already talked to the NMB during the writing process.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

What if about it?
 
If AMFA files you will see an SCS filed to then the PMUS mechanic and related will count towards the 50%+1, and they wont get enough cards from the PMUS side.
 
And once again you avoid the things told and asked.
 
Cant admit you were wrong once again.

 
If AMFA files before a STS determination is called for, then it will be an election based only on AA numbers, and cannot be blocked by a subsequent STS filing.

 

[Duke787]

The IAM negotiates, what it's third bankruptcy contract. The TWU negotiated the biggest concession of all airlines 9 years before bankruptcy, think of what they can accomplish together.

 

[1AA]

The IAM negotiates, what it's third bankruptcy contract. The TWU negotiated the biggest concession of all airlines 9 years before bankruptcy, think of what they can accomplish together.

I'd rather not.

 

[swamt]

Thats what I have been saying and he is calling me a liar.
 
But hey he knows more than the people that wrote it and lawyers that went over it, and both groups already talked to the NMB during the writing process.

Wrong again sir. Write the NMB and find out for yourself.  Again, write the NMB 700, or are you scared?  Are you refusing to get it in writing sir?  Appearently you are, and it speaks volumes...

 

[swamt]

What if about it?
 
If AMFA files you will see an SCS filed to then the PMUS mechanic and related will count towards the 50%+1, and they wont get enough cards from the PMUS side.
 
And once again you avoid the things told and asked.
 
Cant admit you were wrong once again.

Wait a minute here.   If AMFA files for representation at AA prior to any alliance vote, then the US guys will not be counted towards the total.  It will be the AMT's at AA alone.  Only US AMT's would be counted once they are considered one group and there was a filing.  Now I did shout here on my own, but why in the world would US guys count towards a filing for representation by AMFA at AA???   Am I reading your post wrong?  This is just common knowledge.    

 

[swamt]

 
swamt, it is true.
 
1-The upcoming vote this membership is going to take isn't a question on whether the membership wants the IAM/TWU to form an alliance, that has already happened without the membership voting.
 
2-The IAM/TWU alliance will file a petition for representation with the NMB, and if there are no intervenors then the only selections will be IAM/TWU - Other/write in - no union.
 
3-Again - the alliance is already formed - thats NOT what the upcoming election is for.
 
4-It will be a representational election, and it will be conducted by the NMB.

1-  I know the vote is not about if the membership wants the alliance formed (the alliance is already formed with no input or choice of membership).   
 
2-  I hope they truely do file for representational vote thru the NMB!!!  Please do.  But as I have been told by the NMB is that they have no control of internal union issues and elections, and they also said this alliance issue with the IAM and TWU IS I repeat IS an internal union issue or election.
 
3- I know.  But these guys are already represented by the same 2 unions that will file for a vote rather to accept or decline the alliance forced upon the membership.  If it was a different union all together coming in after cards were collected then that would be conducted controlled and ran by the NMB.   I can only pray that the NMB will accept this as full blown representational election as the ballots will have many more options available to pick from.
 
4-  Sir I can only go by what the NMB wrote to me in writing explaining all this, and they say they have no jurisdiction over this alliance vote for the IAM/TWU.  And I encourage all to do the same and not just believe what your unions are telling you.
 
5-  Not to worry guys.  The alliance vote will more than likely NOT happen anyway.   When/if AMFA files for representation at AA, then everyone will have their choice,  DEMOCRATICALLY, of who they want to represent them, and NO, the US AMT's will not be counted with the ballots...

 

[swamt]

Thats what I have been saying and he is calling me a liar.
 
But hey he knows more than the people that wrote it and lawyers that went over it, and both groups already talked to the NMB during the writing process.

Don't know if I flat out called you a liar, however,  when I have it in writing from the NMB, and you continue to refuse to do a little work yourself and write the NMB, it speaks volumes.  I posted my findings on this forum, why won't you ???
 Write the NMB and ask these questions:  1- Who will conduct the election for the alliance of the TWU/IAM?   2- What will be the choices listed on the ballots?  3- Is this an internal union election/issue to be handled internally?
Don't be scared, go ahead and write them.  
If for some reason the NMB will accept this as a full blown representational election then this I would applaud for as the options will greatly change on the ballots.  But once again I really don't think it will get to this point.
Now get busy writing the NMB, if you still refuse to it will only cement your agenda of trying to keep the membership in the dark as well as purposely trying to keep them confused so they think they will go non-union if they do not vote for this alliance which is complete BS and you know it...

 

[700UW]

You can say what you want, Tom Regan and the lawyers have different information, even both the IAM and TWU stated they will be filing it with the NMB and the NMB will conduct the election.

 

[Bob Owens]

I will be voting No period. If they want to try and strong arm the membership into being divided up between two unions they are going to lose us. One union or the other but no way can we agree to this bs alliance.

 

[Bob Owens]

There is going to be a vote, so nothing is forced.

The membership didn't call for the vote nor did they select what the options will be. They are trying to force us into an Alliance because they are too Chickens hit to attempt to debate why we should choose one or the other because both have done a lousy job that has put us at a distant bottom of the industry. We managed to get rid of Little, Videtich et al but you guys still have the same regime in place. The IAM wants this deal to preserve dues, as did Little but Little is gone. They need to toss this and come up with something else.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

1-  I know the vote is not about if the membership wants the alliance formed (the alliance is already formed with no input or choice of membership).   
 
2-  I hope they truely do file for representational vote thru the NMB!!!  Please do.  But as I have been told by the NMB is that they have no control of internal union issues and elections, and they also said this alliance issue with the IAM and TWU IS I repeat IS an internal union issue or election.
 
3- I know.  But these guys are already represented by the same 2 unions that will file for a vote rather to accept or decline the alliance forced upon the membership.  If it was a different union all together coming in after cards were collected then that would be conducted controlled and ran by the NMB.   I can only pray that the NMB will accept this as full blown representational election as the ballots will have many more options available to pick from.
 
4-  Sir I can only go by what the NMB wrote to me in writing explaining all this, and they say they have no jurisdiction over this alliance vote for the IAM/TWU.  And I encourage all to do the same and not just believe what your unions are telling you.
 
5-  Not to worry guys.  The alliance vote will more than likely NOT happen anyway.   When/if AMFA files for representation at AA, then everyone will have their choice,  DEMOCRATICALLY, of who they want to represent them, and NO, the US AMT's will not be counted with the ballots...

 
swamt, I respectfully suggest you contact the NMB and rephrase your question. I'm sure the answer you'll be given will confirm what I've posted here.
 
For the record I have already contacted the NMB, and did so months ago. These were my questions ....
 
1) In a merger situation, are either of the incumbent unions for a particular class & craft "required" to petition for an election once STS has been established.
 
Answer - NO  ( I was referred to the NMB representational manual I linked here earlier)
 
2) Is there any restriction on a newly formed union (IAM/TWU) made up of still certified incumbent unions petitioning for an election as a single entity
 
Answer - NO  however if said new union was successful, a new certification would be issued and the former individual certifications on each airline would be lost.
 
 
Again, the IAM alone is not filing for an election. Neither is the TWU.  The IAM/TWU alliance IS filing for an election, and absent any intervenors they will be the only choice on the ballot other than the write-in option and no union.
 
 
While I sincerely hope you are correct that AMFA files and makes this point moot, until that happens the AA & US MCC need to have the most accurate information available.

 

[blue collar]

 
swamt, I respectfully suggest you contact the NMB and rephrase your question. I'm sure the answer you'll be given will confirm what I've posted here.
 
For the record I have already contacted the NMB, and did so months ago. These were my questions ....
 
1) In a merger situation, are either of the incumbent unions for a particular class & craft "required" to petition for an election once STS has been established.
 
Answer - NO  ( I was referred to the NMB representational manual I linked here earlier)
 
2) Is there any restriction on a newly formed union (IAM/TWU) made up of still certified incumbent unions petitioning for an election as a single entity
 
Answer - NO  however if said new union was successful, a new certification would be issued and the former individual certifications on each airline would be lost.
 
 
Again, the IAM alone is not filing for an election. Neither is the TWU.  The IAM/TWU alliance IS filing for an election, and absent any intervenors they will be the only choice on the ballot other than the write-in option and no union.
 
 
While I sincerely hope you are correct that AMFA files and makes this point moot, until that happens the AA & US MCC need to have the most accurate information available.

Great info. Thanks TSH, and I hope everyone listens and learns. Get your cards together guys!

 

[swamt]

You can say what you want, Tom Regan and the lawyers have different information, even both the IAM and TWU stated they will be filing it with the NMB and the NMB will conduct the election.

So, are you refusing to write the NMB?

 

[swamt]

 
swamt, I respectfully suggest you contact the NMB and rephrase your question. I'm sure the answer you'll be given will confirm what I've posted here.
 
For the record I have already contacted the NMB, and did so months ago. These were my questions ....
 
1) In a merger situation, are either of the incumbent unions for a particular class & craft "required" to petition for an election once STS has been established.
 
Answer - NO  ( I was referred to the NMB representational manual I linked here earlier)
 
2) Is there any restriction on a newly formed union (IAM/TWU) made up of still certified incumbent unions petitioning for an election as a single entity
 
Answer - NO  however if said new union was successful, a new certification would be issued and the former individual certifications on each airline would be lost.
 
 
Again, the IAM alone is not filing for an election. Neither is the TWU.  The IAM/TWU alliance IS filing for an election, and absent any intervenors they will be the only choice on the ballot other than the write-in option and no union.
 
 
While I sincerely hope you are correct that AMFA files and makes this point moot, until that happens the AA & US MCC need to have the most accurate information available.

TSH, Your very first para is correct, with the NMB you actually have to ask the right question AND have to ask it correctly in order to get the legal answer you are looking for.  I will no longer write or call the NMB, and I believe you and I were ones that did contact the NMB around the same time (months ago, several)  I am not a part of either group involved in this, but I was simply trying to light a fire under the a$$es of all involved to do their own research and not believe the hear say of the 2 unions involved.  It is completely up to the people involved to do their own homework and get their own info.  If they do not and go by hear say "they get what they deserve".    And yes, TSH, I truely believe that the alliance vote will not be an issue as the AMFA organization will indeed file for a "full blown" representational election soon at AA and win.  Therefore, the alliance vote will never happen, due to the entire membership at AA is completely fed up with the TWU.  Once this happens, there will be a full blown representational election again done after the merger between the AMFA and IAM.  With the shear numbers of the AA guys over the US guys, and once they all see how the representation is handled by AMFA up to this point, and the fact that the US guys "will not" lose their pensions for voting for another union to represent them, hands down the AMFA will win...  
Final note:  Do not go by what any union officials are telling their members represented by the TWU or the IAM.  They are scared freakin crazy on the issue of AMFA coming in and taking over.  They will in fact say anything and do anything to keep AMFA out. Including scare tactics to force the memberships to vote for this alliance.  What democratic union out there (pilots and F/A's included) would ever have an option on a ballot between the two unions working together to form one have the option of non-union or no union,  answer---NONE, it's a scare tactic point blank...
The IAM and TWU are scared to death of what will happen if AMFA gets in at AA and are willing to do ANYTHING, including working very close to the companies to keep them out, period.  Sorry for ranting, but it all needed to be said once again.   I have no beef with what is going on with you guys.  Just tired of all the BS lies and antics that the other unions will do to prevent AMFA from coming in, there is a reason for that.  The teamsters spent millions upon millions to try and keep AMFA from coming into SWA.  I was one of the most loud individuals telling the SWA mechs to do their own homework and verify everything they are being told and it was the actions of the teamsters themselves that was the final nail in the coffin for them here and they were fired in a record 2 week card drive.   For all the lazy people that do not want to get involved and just want other people to do all the work for them,  YOU GET WHAT YOU DESERVE!!!