That is why there is no better time to leave than now.
TWU days are numbered.
Is this quote true?
- Thread starter NYer
- Start date
TWU days are numbered.
I remember that it came out the company had over $900,000,000 extra in cash it hadn't reported. A day or so later the company wrote off a little more than this amount in value on the 757's to offset this unreported money. But I can't remember where I saw it.
Chuck Schalk
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Bankruptcy judges historically have ruled in favor of the companies why would we expect him to rule in favor of the unions?
with that said, I also feel Sharon Levine made some good arguments presented in court but that does not mean the judge will rule in favor of the unions or anyone one union.
It is not a defeated attitude only a real perspective on the situation. I am hopeful that the judge rules in our favor but more importantly what if he doesn't?
are we as a group ready for this? That is what concerns me, no preperation
with that said, I also feel Sharon Levine made some good arguments presented in court but that does not mean the judge will rule in favor of the unions or anyone one union.
It is not a defeated attitude only a real perspective on the situation. I am hopeful that the judge rules in our favor but more importantly what if he doesn't?
are we as a group ready for this? That is what concerns me, no preperation
Charlie Willis
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It seems to me no one is ready for what may happen. I don't think the company wants to go thru with term sheet they posted, they were truly surprized we turned down their 'last best offer'. Both sides have just locked up, no word on any new negotiations. This waiting is truly good for morale, let's hope we hear something soon but I expect the worst!
Chuck Schalk
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This is also dependent upon the unions not reaching an agreement with the company in mediation with Judge Peck. who knows, it can happen
From the start, we all knew that the bankruptcy court is not the friend of labor. why is this such a shock to anyone? It was said many times before. the spin factor is in play here i see.
well say what you want, I would still vote no again and again because all of the company proposals will kill our careers period.
without system protection, it is only a promise to save jobs!
From the start, we all knew that the bankruptcy court is not the friend of labor. why is this such a shock to anyone? It was said many times before. the spin factor is in play here i see.
well say what you want, I would still vote no again and again because all of the company proposals will kill our careers period.
without system protection, it is only a promise to save jobs!
You meant Preparation H, I assume.
Chuck Schalk
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Our battle is with the company as they can end this mess at anytime. They choose not to. The judge can allow the company to impose temporary terms but we ultimately have to accept it. So whether the judge imposes or not our beef ends up back at the company. Do not get Hung up on BK since the judge even stated that we have to get consenusl agreements anyway.
You were told to vote no because anything the judge imposes on us is temporary and he only is in control until the BK ends at that time the NMB takes back over and you will be back in negoiations if we have not come to a consenual agreement. The judge is aware of this and knows the company cannot afford to exit BK without long term aggreements, this is where are leverage exist, so while it is true he can impose the term sheet for a time it is also true that the company needs a long term agreement to exit BK so remain calm even if the judge impose the term sheet and keep the pressure on and for goodness sake quit listening to the twu stooges.
If this is not enough ask yourself why the Pilots & F/A's are not running for the hills like the twu, you have to know they are far smarter than little jim and the boys...
I wouldnt say its a defeatest opinion, IMO we should not bank on getting Justice in the court system which is overrun with far right wing activist judges who are running roughshod over workers rights. Decisions sich as Citezens United, Marreros decsision that Airline workers could not strike unpon abrogation of their contract when the RLA clearly states that we can strike if the company imposes new terms(and precident established they could=Continetal Pilots in 1983, to this case where a company gets to try and keep it secret that they are trying to use C-11 to secure a 17+% EBITAR. Concessions based upon an excessive profit objective and not onerous terms that prevent it from competeing with their peers. Since they could not establish a Market driven need for concessions they built their arguement around secret numbers where they would be the most profitable airline ever,. Their lawyer even had the nerve to say that we would be the beneficiaries of those Super profits, he left out the fact that we would only get pennies on the dollar. Clearly if AA gets what they want, abrogation of contracts and our unions dont react decisively there is no reason to pay union dues because there will no longer be Collective bargaining in the Airline Industry, which is what I beleive these activist far right wing Judges have in mind. Each carrier will simply do what AA did, exhaust the sect 6 process then File C-11 at the end (The TWU had committed to ask for a release on Nov 30, AA filed the 29th).
We have to be prepared to tell these Activist judges they are not going to put us back in the back of the bus. We have rights, but we have to fight for them.
Bob
While I understand your post because I have read the cases please realize that not everyone here has our desire to dig into the facts to that level and posting technical crap may make you sound smart it will most likely cut the companys way the next time we vote, there is a old addage {KISS} I no know you know what this means.
The Judge does not impose, he terminates the agreement which allows the company to impose. The company could hold that in their back pocket and maintain current terms if they chose to while we continue to negotiate or not. Of course they would not admit to it now because they are using the threat, if the Judge grants their request, that they will impose. Our response should be that if they impose, regardless of what the Activist Anti worker Judges say we will fight back and a lot of Vacationers will have an awful travel experience this summer. The AFL-CIO should get involved and even though we dont deserve their support the entire Airline labor movement should be engaged in this, because if AA wins here they are next.
Everyone has to remember that during normal Sect 6 negotiations, once the 30 day cooling off period is over the carrier can do the same exact thing that they are trying to get the BK court to allow them to do, if anything, IMO the BK method is more restrictive because they are bound to the term sheets. What's different here is that they do not have to wait till the amendable date, which is not an issue with us because our contract became amendable in 2008 and according to that quack Marerro we cant also resort to self help upon abrogation, we have to return to Sect 6 and get released by the NMB. In other words its a one sided release, legally as established by the appeals court, not by laws made by the elected representatives of the People of the United States of America. These right wing activist Judges are trying to make us slaves.
OK , Thanks for explaining in terms that will get the company a yes vote the next time they shove a T/A down your throat
you apparently do not know what {KISS} means and bob try to remember who's on your side.
TWU informer
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I would love to write a long winded complicated rebuttal to all of this.
But today.....I think I will ignore the fact that we cannot even unite when we are on the same side, mainly because someone always demostrate how smart they are.
The biggest challenge we will have when we obtain full democracy in our Union will be ourselves.
Have a great weekend!!!
But today.....I think I will ignore the fact that we cannot even unite when we are on the same side, mainly because someone always demostrate how smart they are.
The biggest challenge we will have when we obtain full democracy in our Union will be ourselves.
Have a great weekend!!!
-The members were told that if they did not vote Pass the "Last, Best and FINAL offer" that the sky would fall. The turd got voted down the sky did not fall. the Judge has pushed his decision back two more weeks, he enlisted the help of another judge to mediate it.
despite the fact that the company is being permitted to keep their Business plan secret several important points have been revealed that may change many of the YES voters minds.
-The company does not need any concessions from M&R or Stores to survive, some of our current terms may put them at a slight disadvantage but to date we have no proof of that. The RIFs that the Union proposed more than covered what the company claimed they needed. Freezing the DB pension, terminating retiree medical and all the other concesions were simply "Gross Overkill".
-The company was demanding $212 from M&R and $20 million from Stores even though they only claimed they needed $170 million from M&R and $18 million from Stores. Their excuse for the extra $41 million from M&R and $2 million from Stores? "We are taking 20% from everyone and 1113 requires us to take the same percentage from everyone".
-They voluntarily enterred BK and their objective is to come out of C-11 and earn more profits than any other airline by paying us much less than any other airline. Money would come directly out of our pockets and go into theirs so they can but 500 new airplanes and provide huge bonuses to management.
How's that?
