It is time for a new approach.

OP
La Li Lu Le Lo

La Li Lu Le Lo

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May 29, 2010
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The purpose of this thread was to develop tactics for the next contract negotiation for the membership (note I said MEMBERSHIP and not TWU), not bash on High Speed Steel. That activity does nothing to improve our future situation. Let's work the problem.

That being said I still think compiling a list would be advantageous. Even if you oust TWU, it would be beneficial to have a predefined list of goals.

If you have a better suggestion please post it. I am not suggesting my idea is best or would even work. However, the only other idea I have seen is the same one getting recycled over and over again, get rid of TWU. That does not seem to be happening at present. Even if it did, then what? We have no real defined plan. The only answer suggested has been to have AMFA come in and "fix" everything. We depended on TWU to fix everything too. How did that work out? Great if your a TWU boss, AA exec, or on the Board of Directors. Horribly if you actually WORK for American Airlines.
 
Feb 14, 2004
1,375
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The purpose of this thread was to develop tactics for the next contract negotiation for the membership (note I said MEMBERSHIP and not TWU), not bash on High Speed Steel. That activity does nothing to improve our future situation. Let's work the problem.

That being said I still think compiling a list would be advantageous. Even if you oust TWU, it would be beneficial to have a predefined list of goals.

If you have a better suggestion please post it. I am not suggesting my idea is best or would even work. However, the only other idea I have seen is the same one getting recycled over and over again, get rid of TWU. That does not seem to be happening at present. Even if it did, then what? We have no real defined plan. The only answer suggested has been to have AMFA come in and "fix" everything. We depended on TWU to fix everything too. How did that work out? Great if your a TWU boss, AA exec, or on the Board of Directors. Horribly if you actually WORK for American Airlines.

This compiled list you speak of has already been done with the 2001 negotiations prep and the 2008 prep. We were requested to submit supposals to the negotiating committee's before they actually entered into section 6 negotiation. How they were compiled for an action plan after that I don't know but I do know what you suggest is in play. Now it wouldn't hurt as you say to start earlier.
 

Kev3188

Veteran
Oct 5, 2003
18,499
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Right in the middle.
The purpose of this thread was to develop tactics for the next contract negotiation for the membership (note I said MEMBERSHIP and not TWU), not bash on High Speed Steel. That activity does nothing to improve our future situation. Let's work the problem.

That being said I still think compiling a list would be advantageous. Even if you oust TWU, it would be beneficial to have a predefined list of goals.

If you have a better suggestion please post it. I am not suggesting my idea is best or would even work. However, the only other idea I have seen is the same one getting recycled over and over again, get rid of TWU. That does not seem to be happening at present. Even if it did, then what? We have no real defined plan. The only answer suggested has been to have AMFA come in and "fix" everything. We depended on TWU to fix everything too. How did that work out? Great if your a TWU boss, AA exec, or on the Board of Directors. Horribly if you actually WORK for American Airlines.

Before you come up with a list of CBA goals, you (general sense) first need to redefine/reconstruct who you are as a union- regardless, of which union that may be. That starts on the floor, and goes from the bottom up. That involves rethinking what "business as usual" is, and how the current leadership structure may or may not fit in with that. It requires member engagement, and removing the calcified deadwood that has stifled your advancement as a group for decades. It requires the elimination of any complacency or feelings of futility, and replacing that with an energized sense of direction. Most of all, it requires hard work, but the return on that investment will be well worth it.

Start working today to take ownership of your future(s)!
 
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Vortilon

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Jun 22, 2004
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2,127
USA
The purpose of this thread was to develop tactics for the next contract negotiation for the membership (note I said MEMBERSHIP and not TWU), not bash on High Speed Steel. That activity does nothing to improve our future situation. Let's work the problem.

That being said I still think compiling a list would be advantageous. Even if you oust TWU, it would be beneficial to have a predefined list of goals.

If you have a better suggestion please post it. I am not suggesting my idea is best or would even work. However, the only other idea I have seen is the same one getting recycled over and over again, get rid of TWU. That does not seem to be happening at present. Even if it did, then what? We have no real defined plan. The only answer suggested has been to have AMFA come in and "fix" everything. We depended on TWU to fix everything too. How did that work out? Great if your a TWU boss, AA exec, or on the Board of Directors. Horribly if you actually WORK for American Airlines.

Without union leadership that has the memberships best interests as a priority; as opposed to, the internationals best interests - you will end up with similar results every time. That is why getting rid of the TWU, and it's group of posers occupying positions at the international level need to go. Aside from the fact that it is embarrassing being "represented" by the TWU, and going through this BS facade during every contract negotiation process. That is why the AMFA has to be our bargaining agent in the future. Having negotiators that will have to eventually work under the pay and benefits they helped negotiate. Add to that, the name "AMFA" alone just sounds better. C'mon "Transport Workers Union" - gawd - it just sounds communist.
 
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OldGuy@AA

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Apr 14, 2011
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Tulsa
Without union leadership that has the memberships best interests as a priority; as opposed to, the internationals best interests - you will end up with similar results every time. That is why getting rid of the TWU, and it's group of posers occupying positions at the international level need to go. Aside from the fact that it is embarrassing being "represented" by the TWU, and going through this BS facade during every contract negotiation process. That is why the AMFA has to be our bargaining agent in the future. Having negotiators that will have to eventually work under the pay and benefits they helped negotiate. Add to that, the name "AMFA" alone just sounds better. C'mon "Transport Workers Union" - gawd - it just sounds communist.
I agree 100%. This was well thought out and well said.
 
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TWU informer

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Nov 4, 2003
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Without union leadership that has the memberships best interests as a priority; as opposed to, the internationals best interests - you will end up with similar results every time. That is why getting rid of the TWU, and it's group of posers occupying positions at the international level need to go. Aside from the fact that it is embarrassing being "represented" by the TWU, and going through this BS facade during every contract negotiation process. That is why the AMFA has to be our bargaining agent in the future. Having negotiators that will have to eventually work under the pay and benefits they helped negotiate. Add to that, the name "AMFA" alone just sounds better. C'mon "Transport Workers Union" - gawd - it just sounds communist.
And why is this simple fact, not as important as fear and the good old boy club in Tulsa? I cannot for the life of me understand why this simple concept is over the head of the minners and ammo crowd.
 
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swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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Why you guys give this guy credibility with answers I have no clue, I can see a little difference in opinion with some forum members is good for the forum but, this guy is an obvious troll getting his jollies from you guys......why bite so much?

As we have constantly proven this guy wrong in the past. With his continuation of lies, deciet, and mis-information, unfortantally our services will be required in the future. After all it is entertaining...
 
Feb 14, 2004
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As we have constantly proven this guy wrong in the past. With his continuation of lies, deciet, and mis-information, unfortantally our services will be required in the future. After all it is entertaining...

Now that is some funny shet! How absurd, the sorry bastard :p

By the topic of this thread I think its as good a time as any to bow out. "It is time for a new approach" HSS is gonna hang up his spurs, piss on the fire and call in the dogs because this hunt is over. Nearing 9 years of haggling with the clowns here must come to an end. This is HSS signing off.... ;)
 
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swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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Now that is some funny shet! How absurd, the sorry bastard :p

By the topic of this thread I think its as good a time as any to bow out. "It is time for a new approach" HSS is gonna hang up his spurs, piss on the fire and call in the dogs because this hunt is over. Nearing 9 years of haggling with the clowns here must come to an end. This is HSS signing off.... ;)

As the commercial says, "that was easy". LOL
 

Tex-Mech

Veteran
Now that is some funny shet! How absurd, the sorry bastard :p

By the topic of this thread I think its as good a time as any to bow out. "It is time for a new approach" HSS is gonna hang up his spurs, piss on the fire and call in the dogs because this hunt is over. Nearing 9 years of haggling with the clowns here must come to an end. This is HSS signing off.... ;)

Finally had something to give you a +1 for. :eek:
 

1AA

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Aug 20, 2002
6,054
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www.usaviation.com
Now that is some funny shet! How absurd, the sorry bastard :p

By the topic of this thread I think its as good a time as any to bow out. "It is time for a new approach" HSS is gonna hang up his spurs, piss on the fire and call in the dogs because this hunt is over. Nearing 9 years of haggling with the clowns here must come to an end. This is HSS signing off.... ;)

Promises, promises. You can not resist.
 
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OP
La Li Lu Le Lo

La Li Lu Le Lo

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May 29, 2010
7,166
2,650
This compiled list you speak of has already been done with the 2001 negotiations prep and the 2008 prep. We were requested to submit supposals to the negotiating committee's before they actually entered into section 6 negotiation. How they were compiled for an action plan after that I don't know but I do know what you suggest is in play. Now it wouldn't hurt as you say to start earlier.
Who made the request? Who is we? I was never asked to participate in this. It sounds as if you handed them a list of wants with a "do as you will" directive. That is not the same tactic I am suggesting.

Before you come up with a list of CBA goals, you (general sense) first need to redefine/reconstruct who you are as a union- regardless, of which union that may be. That starts on the floor, and goes from the bottom up. That involves rethinking what "business as usual" is, and how the current leadership structure may or may not fit in with that. It requires member engagement, and removing the calcified deadwood that has stifled your advancement as a group for decades. It requires the elimination of any complacency or feelings of futility, and replacing that with an energized sense of direction. Most of all, it requires hard work, but the return on that investment will be well worth it.

Start working today to take ownership of your future(s)!

Great. Now we are getting somewhere.
How do we go about redefining ourselves as a UNION regardless of who represents us? (Redefinition)
How should the "bottom up" go about accomplishing this? (Reorganization)
What can we do to change the current leadership structure? (Redistribution)
How do we energize people and get a sense of direction? (Redirection)

I thought a list compilation would address some of these issues (redefinition, reorganization, redirection). You seem like you have put some thought into this. Do you have any suggestions where to begin?

I would like something to come of this thread besides talk.

This goes for all users on this forum.
PLEASE start using a spell check (Unless Webster's Dictionary has recently added spousals (proposals I assume) as a word, then by all means disregard my request).
 
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swamt

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Oct 23, 2010
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Who made the request? Who is we? I was never asked to participate in this. It sounds as if you handed them a list of wants with a "do as you will" directive. That is not the same tactic I am suggesting.

LaLo,
Don't think this actually happened just because he said it did. This guy loves to spin everything. I think he is just trying to make it sound like their current union tried to act like AMFA and polled the membership for negos ideas, because this is what AMFA does at all contract negos. Just like contract nego observers, only happens with AMFA.
 
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cf6mech

Advanced
Feb 3, 2012
159
128
Now that is some funny shet! How absurd, the sorry bastard :p

By the topic of this thread I think its as good a time as any to bow out. "It is time for a new approach" HSS is gonna hang up his spurs, piss on the fire and call in the dogs because this hunt is over. Nearing 9 years of haggling with the clowns here must come to an end. This is HSS signing off.... ;)

The new approach will be a new Forum moniker name.
 
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