JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

2 Labor organizations has now shown to be a disaster. The membership was right.

3.5 years and we have refused to bother exchanging proposals on wages, scope, health care, and retirement.

Now, the economic terms have changed and we can no longer get what the company gave other groups a year ago. Plus, we may be stalled due to mx. Our negotiators blew it. The question becomes, will they double down and stall and blame the company, or will they move forward?

 

[Talos]

I was one that believed under the MOU that Seniority had been decided. Has it not in Fleet, or is that mechanics only.
And to acquire outside people to help in deciding that the right way is done is down right troubling. It doesn't show me the Association wants to do what's right, it shows me the Association was a mistake and they will possibly let someone who it doesn't affect one iota decide what's best for their members...troubling indeed!!
 
A simple vote would have prevented this mess.

These are steps backwards.I read that they had a seniority agreement a long time ago. WTF have they been doing for the past year and a half or whatever it has been? This is the kind of stuff that without a doubt makes the Association look like a mistake.It's embarrassing to have this kind of inept crap going on. This is like a clown act when you have to bring in this Javits guy to help you. It only shows the 2 unions do not agree, and makes you wonder on how much they do not agree. Also is the trouble spilling over to the negotiations? Have to agree with you AANOTOK the association has shown itself to be a mistake.

 

[Tim Nelson]

These are steps backwards.I read that they had a seniority agreement a long time ago. WTF have they been doing for the past year and a half or whatever it has been? This is the kind of stuff that without a doubt makes the Association look like a mistake.It's embarrassing to have this kind of inept crap going on. This is like a clown act when you have to bring in this Javits guy to help you. It only shows the 2 unions do not agree, and makes you wonder on how much they do not agree. Also is the trouble spilling over to the negotiations? Have to agree with you AANOTOK the association has shown itself to be a mistake.

They are cowards. They are afraid of lawsuits. Javitz is not a neutral mediator. He was hired to protect the Labor rep. He is not hired in the capacity of arbitrator. He will do what the Ass tells him to do.

 

[charlie Brown]

Tim, before you start your battle back with W, answer this question I keep throwing out there. No one seems to want to touch it.
 
What could they be discussing in Seniority integration if the MOU already exist.

AANOTOK
I can tell you from also being on the seniority team that there aren't any major issues with fleet. While I can't speak completely about everything, Javitz is basically being called in by the association to look over everything and give a final ruling on whether the process is fair and equitable. With also giving the members a time period that they will be able to file any type of suggestions or protest directly to him if anyone so chooses. We do have a few small issues with the tower and load planners from the AA side that will be coming into the contract. But I can assure you it's nothing that will hold up the process.

 

[AANOTOK]

AANOTOK
I can tell you from also being on the seniority team that there aren't any major issues with fleet. While I can't speak completely about everything, Javitz is basically being called in by the association to look over everything and give a final ruling on whether the process is fair and equitable. With also giving the members a time period that they will be able to file any type of suggestions or protest directly to him if anyone so chooses. We do have a few small issues with the tower and load planners from the AA side that will be coming into the contract. But I can assure you it's nothing that will hold up the process.

Fair enough, thanks for the reply.

 

[charlie Brown]

To everyone:
I tried to explain last week about giving weekly updates and how I wasn't really crazy about them. I post that because I knew we were about to get into the bigger issues and t/a,s will not be reached every week now. However many of these articles will fall in place very close in the same time span because they are all " money related " now. If you want my personal opinion? I don't think this week went bad at all. We went back and forth with the company on issues of holidays, hours of work, and overtime. We made progress on all these issues. Just not enough to get a T/a on them. I also stated last week that this LUS management team will make is fight and claw for everything. Having said that, I don't think we have been set back at all. I think it is negotiations as usual with this management team.

 

[WeAAsles]

2 Labor organizations has now shown to be a disaster. The membership was right.
3.5 years and we have refused to bother exchanging proposals on wages, scope, health care, and retirement.
Now, the economic terms have changed and we can no longer get what the company gave other groups a year ago. Plus, we may be stalled due to mx. Our negotiators blew it. The question becomes, will they double down and stall and blame the company, or will they move forward?

http://youtu.be/l6g0gDrCUi8

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, before you start your battle back with W, answer this question I keep throwing out there. No one seems to want to touch it.
 
What could they be discussing in Seniority integration if the MOU already exist.

They havent integrated anything. They have a method they agreed to. Not sure if the lead stuff has been straightened out but the iam definately hosed the lus peeps by waiving off full doh and not recognizing all part time, and time spent laid off. Maybe that was the big iam concession that got little to bite on supporting the stand alone talks.

Laa will come out fine regarding seniority. Im not complaining about it, cuz that is already a done deal but i dont like how lus didnt get their true doh. It only affects me by 3 months but mostly affects clt and former piedmont, or anyone laid off, or former usair prior 1979.

 

[AANOTOK]

They havent integrated anything. They have a method they agreed to. Not sure if the lead stuff has been straightened out but the iam definately hosed the lus peeps by waiving off full doh and not recognizing all part time, and time spent laid off. Maybe that was the big iam concession that got little to bite on supporting the stand alone talks.

Laa will come out fine regarding seniority. Im not complaining about it, cuz that is already a done deal but i dont like how lus didnt get their true doh. It only affects me by 3 months but mostly affects clt and former piedmont, or anyone laid off, or former usair prior 1979.

Tim, explain your true DOH. I was hired in April of 1983 straight into fleet by AA. I carry that seniority today. How are the LUS guys getting hosed?

 

[Kev3188]

They havent integrated anything. They have a method they agreed to. Not sure if the lead stuff has been straightened out but the iam definately hosed the lus peeps by waiving off full doh and not recognizing all part time, and time spent laid off. Maybe that was the big iam concession that got little to bite on supporting the stand alone talks.
Laa will come out fine regarding seniority. Im not complaining about it, cuz that is already a done deal but i dont like how lus didnt get their true doh. It only affects me by 3 months but mostly affects clt and former piedmont, or anyone laid off, or former usair prior 1979.

What is the rationale for not counting any "bad time?"

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim, explain your true DOH. I was hired in April of 1983 straight into fleet by AA. I carry that seniority today. How are the LUS guys getting hosed?

LUS is a combo of psa, piedmont, usair.
I was piedmont. At piedmont i was hired pt march 1986.
I upgraded out of cha when i went to clt in october, 1986. I got 1/2 credit for all pt. Also, when someone was laid off, they stopped accruing seniority after 90 days (it might have been 60). Been a while since we had layoffs but it still may be that way where laid off folks get adjusted and lose any time not continuous.
Previous usair got zero time for pt prior to 1979.

Look, our negotiators already hosed us so other than fussing, there isnt much that can be done.

So, when the seniority says it goes by doh into the class, thats an adjusted doh for many lus.

We didnt have any arbitrated decisions, and we could have had mb ammendment protections but all that was waived.
It is what it is now.

 

[Tim Nelson]

What is the rationale for not counting any "bad time?"

There isnt a finally convincing reason imo. Company and union just dont want to differ from previous anti union policies. If an arbitrator ruled, then it would be different, otherwise they shouldda went with class doh.

 

[pjirish317]

Tim,
 
Please make sure that you tell everybody that this happened with our first contract. We got "Classification Date" from the IAM. Not the current negotiators. This was a Canoli and Chandlee deal with the company back in 1997 i think when it went straight date of entry for everybody that was hired after 1997 everybody before 1997 got classification date.

 

[700UW]

You didnt get your first CBA till 1999, your seniority was in the bridge agreement.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Tim,
 
Please make sure that you tell everybody that this happened with our first contract. We got "Classification Date" from the IAM. Not the current negotiators. This was a Canoli and Chandlee deal with the company back in 1997 i think when it went straight date of entry for everybody that was hired after 1997 everybody before 1997 got classification date.

Good point, PJ, but remember, there was NO restrictions nor any arbitrated decision that prohibited our Ill Ask Management from correcting that. If you have been told otherwise, they are just bs you.

This negotiation team could have made us whole with this merger but they dealt our seniority out when they signed the TWU pact. They didnt have to do that PJ but they did. Thats the story.

Even in arbitrated decisions, things can be challenged but in our case there was no arbitration. They may present boatloads of excuses like the twu wouldnt have agreed, or the company wouldnt have agreed...blah blah.
The fact is that the mccaskill bond act gave us the right to negotiate this with forced arbitration and the company would have no say so. They waived that PJ when they submitted. Its over....we lose and it has nothing to do with canale.