JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Traymark]

Traymark, do you ha
 

Traymark, do you have the specific language? I'm not disagreeing with you, It's just I thought the Pilots were the only ones getting the "contribution" and everyone else it was a match.

The contract is in jetnet, it's on page 26-6:

a. 2012 Seniority List Flight Attendants under 40 - 5.5% Contribution
b. " ". ". ". ". ". 40 to 49 - 6.75% Contribution
c. ". ". ". ". ". ". 50 and older 9.9% Contribution

This Contribution is from DOS until Dec 31, 2018, basically 5 years.

From January 1, 2019 it then becomes a 3% CONTRIBUTION , not a match, and also an additional 2.5% match.


That's a pretty good paraphrase , the bottom line is, with the demographics of the ground workers being mostly 50 and over, those 5 years of a very healthy Contribution would help many towards a better retirement than entering into the IAMPF for the same period of time.

It's a shame W has already signed off on even asking for it, because it's pure Crazy Town to him.

The company has just made more profits in the last 2 years than they have in my previous 23 years with AA Combined, but it's pure Crazy Town to try and get compensated similarly to what another work group got.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The contract is in jetnet, it's on page 26-6:
a. 2012 Seniority List Flight Attendants under 40 - 5.5% Contribution
b. " ". ". ". ". ". 40 to 49 - 6.75% Contribution
c. ". ". ". ". ". ". 50 and older 9.9% Contribution
This Contribution is from DOS until Dec 31, 2018, basically 5 years.
From January 1, 2019 it then becomes a 3% CONTRIBUTION , not a match, and also an additional 2.5% match.
That's a pretty good paraphrase , the bottom line is, with the demographics of the ground workers being mostly 50 and over, those 5 years of a very healthy Contribution would help many towards a better retirement than entering into the IAMPF for the same period of time.
It's a shame W has already signed off on even asking for it, because it's pure Crazy Town to him.
The company has just made more profits in the last 2 years than they have in my previous 23 years with AA Combined, but it's pure Crazy Town to try and get compensated similarly to what another work group got.

At LUS, prior to us being collared into this awful iampf, we had up to 10%, based on age. 6% was contribution, 2% match, and 2% profit sharing. When we converted to the iampf it became at $47 million concession in 2003.

Since then the iampf has become a bigger concession as our wages increased but the company only contributes another nickel. Crazy town is right. The iam and twu are the worst. Its a shame how awful they have allowed even mx to get. As a ramper, i realize these 2 labor organizations blow, so it always amazes me when a mx thinks these 2 groups have done him/her good.

 

[Traymark]

At LUS, prior to us being collared into this awful iampf, we had up to 10%, based on age. 6% was contribution, 2% match, and 2% profit sharing. When we converted to the iampf it became at $47 million concession in 2003.

Since then the iampf has become a bigger concession as our wages increased but the company only contributes another nickel. Crazy town is right. The iam and twu are the worst. Its a shame how awful they have allowed even mx to get. As a ramper, i realize these 2 labor organizations blow, so it always amazes me when a mx thinks these 2 groups have done him/her good.

 
 
 
WOW, just Wow!
 
Funny, I don't recall 700 ever talking about this.
 
This info really puts it all in whole new perspective.
I had no idea you got hosed THAT bad.
 
All the more reason to insist it goes back to language like you had , if a member should "choose" to?
 
What say you W, how bout a "choice" for each and every member to have language like Tim just said was in their contract?

 

[Tim Nelson]

WOW, just Wow!
 
Funny, I don't recall 700 ever talking about this.
 
This info really puts it all in whole new perspective.
I had no idea you got hosed THAT bad.
 
All the more reason to insist it goes back to language like you had , if a member should "choose" to?
 
What say you W, how bout a "choice" for each and every member to have language like Tim just said was in their contract?

The company loves putting in only $1 an hour into our iampf...up to 40 hours.

Back in the day, it was dumping mega more into my retirement and it was based on total compensation, not limited to 40 hours. I had some checks where the company contributed $250 in a 2 week check. We built our 401k up great. Then along came Crazy Town.

 

[Racer X]

 
 
Weez, you do amaze me. You actually think that the association was founded on the fundamental principals of freedom and Democracy? This pension thing is really my only sticking point. What you are a campaigning for "the right to choose" comes with a cost. Have you ever sat down to consider the true cost of what you want, against the long term effects to others, just to satisfy your misguided sense of entitlement? Let me remind you, I have no love for the association. The opinions, suggestions, comments or complaints expressed here, in this forum have as much chance of effecting change as Trump dropping out of the race for President.
I do feel the IAM will make some attempt to snare the members of the TWU to prop-up their pension business. Even the mere mention if it in the eventual TA will draw an "NO" vote from me. After reading all of the IAM publication on the subject, I can boil it down to this.
 
You want to join the IAMPF, you will have to relocate to a IAM city, like CLT. Your LAA 401K contributions would stop, and forwarded to the IAM 401K, but if your lucky you might be able to role over the to the IAM 401K. But sorry, if your LAA 401K is all from pretax earnings, then a hefty tax would be in effect and evaporate a good portion of that.
And now fro the nuts and bolts for your yearly pension benefit.
I will start with the numbers.
TWU dues at $40/month
IAM dues at $80/month
TWU 401K match %5.5
IAM 401k match %3.0
TWU/IAM wages $29.27
TWU wages less union dues and adding %5.5 401K match.= $63,750.10
IAM wages less union dues and adding %3.0 401K match.= $61,748.00
 
A difference of $2,002.10
 
The variance would equate to, after ten years, a monthly withdraw of $251.35/month after the age of 62 and would last to age 75. And it's the returns that make it go this far. Or $251.35/month for 13 years.
 
On the other hand, the IAM pension has a benefit of $6229.20/year for 5 years at $519.10/month, or $259.55/month for 10 years.
 
Yep the choice is your if ya get it.
I think you should be fighting for a better 401K match, %8 sounds good,
 

At the current contribution rate for ten years, I believe The benefit would be 519.10 a month for every month until you pass away. unless you take the survivor benefit for your spouse

 

[WeAAsles]

 
 
 
WOW, just Wow!
 
Funny, I don't recall 700 ever talking about this.
 
This info really puts it all in whole new perspective.
I had no idea you got hosed THAT bad.
 
All the more reason to insist it goes back to language like you had , if a member should "choose" to?
 
What say you W, how bout a "choice" for each and every member to have language like Tim just said was in their contract?

I've advocated and continue to advocate over and over and over the idea of choice. And since we are in a Fleet thread here of course I would LOVE to have a 10% match. And you think the chances of obtaining that and going 3% over the TOP rate at UAL (Top in the industry) $30.77 are what?

Or we can make another industry comparison to our TWU represented peers over at SWA who currently have a 8.3% match going up to 9.3% on Jan 1, 2019. But they won't go above $30.77 until after 3/1/2020 which is almost 4 years from now?

Wages on Page 80
401K on page 86

And let's also not forget that they have a better Profit Sharing formula than us but that is subject to change.

http://www.twu555.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/TWU555CBA_Final201160407.pdf

 

[Racer X]

Not sure exactly how it works in the IAM contract? It may be a separation of status that you can sign up and I'm sure of course once the list is exhausted its a free for all for warm bodies.

FT gets all FT ot first  plus any ''extra shifts'' over 5 hours    IT is also done by leads get lead ot first and agent gets agent ot first.  PT gets all PT ot first plus all ''extra shifts''of 5 hours or less.   AFTER the perspective lists are exhausted then PT can get FT ot And  FT can get PT overtime

 

[WeAAsles]

The contract is in jetnet, it's on page 26-6:

a. 2012 Seniority List Flight Attendants under 40 - 5.5% Contribution
b. " ". ". ". ". ". 40 to 49 - 6.75% Contribution
c. ". ". ". ". ". ". 50 and older 9.9% Contribution

This Contribution is from DOS until Dec 31, 2018, basically 5 years.

From January 1, 2019 it then becomes a 3% CONTRIBUTION , not a match, and also an additional 2.5% match.


That's a pretty good paraphrase , the bottom line is, with the demographics of the ground workers being mostly 50 and over, those 5 years of a very healthy Contribution would help many towards a better retirement than entering into the IAMPF for the same period of time.

It's a shame W has already signed off on even asking for it, because it's pure Crazy Town to him.

The company has just made more profits in the last 2 years than they have in my previous 23 years with AA Combined, but it's pure Crazy Town to try and get compensated similarly to what another work group got.

We currently have a 3% contribution and an extra 2.5% match taking it to 5.5% if you put in at least that much.

As I recall when they did their agreement which gave them an 80 Million advantage over the industry aggregate, to gain that 5 year 401k deal they had to offer financial concessions in other areas of their contract that weren't too popular. One was the 40 hour qualifier for medical coverage that I believe goes into effect next year?

Parker backed down off that 40 hour qualifier before the voting had commenced but the FA's still didn't find that to be good enough and they voted that TA down. The Arbitrator then ruled (as was told to them) for an industry aggregate that brought the value of their now contract down by 80 million. Luckily Parker (And the BOD) chose to give them back the wages but they never did get back the piece about the medical qualifier.

Something the members fought very hard to get rid of and then overshot the mark thinking they could get even more. A HORRIBLE tactical decision on their part that their current leadership is still begging to this day management to back down off of to no avail. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

We currently have a 3% contribution and an extra 2.5% match taking it to 5.5% if you put in at least that much.

As I recall when they did their agreement which gave them an 80 Million advantage over the industry aggregate, to gain that 5 year 401k deal they had to offer financial concessions in other areas of their contract that weren't too popular. One was the 40 hour qualifier for medical coverage that I believe goes into effect next year?

Parker backed down off that 40 hour qualifier before the voting had commenced but the FA's still didn't find that to be good enough and they voted that TA down. The Arbitrator then ruled (as was told to them) for an industry aggregate that brought the value of their now contract down by 80 million. Luckily Parker (And the BOD) chose to give them back the wages but they never did get back the piece about the medical qualifier.

Something the members fought very hard to get rid of and then overshot the mark thinking they could get even more. A HORRIBLE tactical decision on their part that their current leadership is still begging to this day management to back down off of to no avail.

yet we just hired a 3rd party, paid by the Ass to screw up our seniority. Javitz hammered the sUA leads.

 

[WeAAsles]

FT gets all FT ot first  plus any ''extra shifts'' over 5 hours    IT is also done by leads get lead ot first and agent gets agent ot first.  PT gets all PT ot first plus all ''extra shifts''of 5 hours or less.   AFTER the perspective lists are exhausted then PT can get FT ot And  FT can get PT overtime

Thank you sir. We'll see how that plays out in the future and what the three sides eventually agree on? I have preferences I like in both contracts but I'm quite sure the company didn't like my choices last week? As would be expected from their first pass.

As CB said, they're not exactly going to make any of this easy.  

 

[WeAAsles]

yet we just hired a 3rd party, paid by the Ass to screw up our seniority. Javitz hammered the sUA leads.

Not what I'm discussing here and personally could care less about seniority integration. If some guy hired on the same date as me transfers into my station and has that lower SS #................. Cest La Vie.

 

[Real tired]

At LUS, prior to us being collared into this awful iampf, we had up to 10%, based on age. 6% was contribution, 2% match, and 2% profit sharing. When we converted to the iampf it became at $47 million concession in 2003.

Since then the iampf has become a bigger concession as our wages increased but the company only contributes another nickel. Crazy town is right. The iam and twu are the worst. Its a shame how awful they have allowed even mx to get. As a ramper, i realize these 2 labor organizations blow, so it always amazes me when a mx thinks these 2 groups have done him/her good.

 
What do you mean "did us good"?
 
That's only the minority of my apathetic, unread, bullet point coworkers speaking. 
 
How many YEARS did we wait for the current contract of 2014?  How many times did we hear "hold out guys for just a little longer because huge increase in the pension multiplier, and big raises coming"?  What did we get?  Zilch.  A big fat cost neutral contract.
 
And the NC response, "they were tough negotiators, and we had to align ourselves with a possible upcoming merger with American Airlines.  We'll get them next time".  
 
They did us no good.  

 

[Tim Nelson]

What do you mean "did us good"?
 
That's only the minority of my apathetic, unread, bullet point coworkers speaking. 
 
How many YEARS did we wait for the current contract of 2014?  How many times did we hear "hold out guys for just a little longer because huge increase in the pension multiplier, and big raises coming"?  What did we get?  Zilch.  A big fat cost neutral contract.
 
And the NC response, "they were tough negotiators, and we had to align ourselves with a possible upcoming merger with American Airlines.  We'll get them next time".  
 
They did us no good.

Agreed. these morons still haven't restored our retirement contributions from the company back in 1990. Idiots. We only have $1.10 and part timers like .70 cents. These guys are morons. Absolutely pathetic. Might as well say no retirement.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
What do you mean "did us good"?
 
That's only the minority of my apathetic, unread, bullet point coworkers speaking. 
 
How many YEARS did we wait for the current contract of 2014?  How many times did we hear "hold out guys for just a little longer because huge increase in the pension multiplier, and big raises coming"?  What did we get?  Zilch.  A big fat cost neutral contract.
 
And the NC response, "they were tough negotiators, and we had to align ourselves with a possible upcoming merger with American Airlines.  We'll get them next time".  
 
They did us no good.  

Yea wow. They really did screw you. That extra $4.00 per hour you're making ($160.00 per week, $640,00 per month, $7680.00 per year) is a real jip man.

Yea they punked you big time.

 

[700UW]

Real Tired is a mechanic, not fleet.