JCBA Negotiations and updates for AA Fleet

[Tim Nelson]

Kev  I know you have said it on here  some eons ago but what is DL mainline employee for FSA top out rate?   UA is 33.3     Not sure what SWA tops out at but I think we should get in that ball park if not on top of the game

Where do you get that UA is $33?? They are presently topped out at around $25 I think. In November they go up to $29.87. They don't make $33 until around 2021 I believe.

And if we took their contract, we would have to reduce our scope from about 44 stations down to about 28. Health insurance would basically be rolled over to LAA, no part time caps, no full time protections unless you have 17 years, rotating days off, no catering, no freight, no lav [laa]. No Nothing except $29 buck. You want that?

 

[WeAAsles]

I think UA profit sharing is now 5%, which will be similar to ours. The big thing about the UA agreement is no protections, and only 28 stations with scope, and no union rules that will prohibit the company from making everyone part time. Toss in nasty health insurance that could be a big spike for any LUS person.

I have only me on my health insurance so my cost would be limited if we went to LAA or UA health insurance, part time caps most likely would never affect me with my seniority in ORD, but it would be a lousy union contract if we just went with the cash and tweaked our scope down to 28 stations only.

I believe it is still 10% but I have to get ready for work now so here's the link where you can look that up. Just go to the tab that say's United Fleet Service and then the first few pages will tell you where items of language are.

http://dl141.com/united/index.html

 

[WeAAsles]

interesting. The IAMPF fluctuates and you can even read it, yet you mention rates and future benefits as if they are all locked in. They aren't and they won't be.

Speculative. Maybe they will, maybe they won't? Maybe they will go down but maybe they can go up as well?

 

[Kev3188]

Robbed you can't ask Kev to compare to the numbers you quoted since they don't fall in line till the end of 2021. Kev can only give you what he makes currently and not what he "might" get next year.

  

Speculative. Maybe they will, maybe they won't? Maybe they will go down but maybe they can go up as well?

Oh.

 

[WeAAsles]

Oh.

Yeppers. The pension fund is partially predicated on the market. The market tanks and the fund tanks (Along with your "portable" 401k)

The other item is 100% fact.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Speculative. Maybe they will, maybe they won't? Maybe they will go down but maybe they can go up as well?

Well, a reason and math would highly and most probably suggest downward, and with little doubt. Zippo chance of going up. You didn't get the letter did you?

That said, my point was that you pick and choose. On the one hand, you tell Kev and others that their opinions are invalid due to nobody knowing the future, but then you do the same thing and speculate but claim it as fact.

As far as the United contract, I don't have any need to review it. It's 5% now. About the only thing you have said, with any consistency that was true, is that the United peeps have a retiree bridge using 11 hours of sick time a month to extend health care through the age of 65. If we got that, then maybe I may retire at 60. I'm pulling for you to be right about all of your Pollyanna Treasure Island stuff bro. And I really hope you are correct that it won't come with concessions. You will have a lot of explaining to do, 701, if we had to purchase our $30 with concessions. I want that contract that is better than the CWA contract that you guaranteed us! I want it now!

 

[Worldport]

The MIA President makes $1000.00 per month extra above whatever his status was on the ramp. In the case of the MIA President he makes almost $70,000 per year at the moment. From his position going down the line each officer down to the Steward is given an extra stipend.

Any appointed positions granted are also paid positions which must be accounted for by Law and submitted to the DOL to be disclosed on the end of the year LM2.

So no. Not necessarily is everyone in it for the better interest of the Union because money does get in the way.

Does your president work the ramp? our's does and I don't think she makes $1000 a month. It's a thankless job getting calls at 3am and such. I would think some people(not in her case) take the jobs hoping for future considerations

 

[Tim Nelson]

Yeppers. The pension fund is partially predicated on the market. The market tanks and the fund tanks (Along with your "portable" 401k)

The other item is 100% fact.

The pension plan is based on the structure of the plan that is a disaster.

Currently, the last year had the biggest loss in recent times, although the market kicked arse. The market values tend to show a clearer picture of a plan’s funded status at a given point in time. The market value, as of January 1, was 92%, down from 100%, from the previous year. Warning Will Robinson, Warning!!! In one year it got whacked about 8% when comparing market values against liabilities, and that is the clearer picture in regards to funded status. Remember, 80% is the yellow zone but it will NEVER get there as the Trustees will have to make very very hurtful but necessary decisions possibly within the next 2 years. The actuary asset values plummeted to 101%, down from 110% a few years ago.

It's not just the market that kicks this pensions butt, with over 200,000 participants and about 80,000 putting into it. It's now slipping at a rate of 2.5%, and that's in GREAT market times. Trust me, I realize you don't know this, but when it hits about 95% on its actuary asset/liability projections, the trustees have to do something or risk it going into the orange section and triggering additional federal rules. So, unless the IAM brings in about 50,000 more members within the next 2 years, something is going to pop. It could be reducing benefits of retirees, or reducing future benefits of actives. Either/or. But that little $80 a month you like quoting at United can become $40 a month real quick, and will if the IAM doesn't toss in about 50,000 more peeps in the plan.

 

[Worldport]

Absent rock solid language, I would be....

The 1 flight/day LOA is the jump off point. Might also note that a certain ATL-based carrier staffs the ramp in a city with 3 mainline flights/day (thank to the IAM CBA at NW)...

 Someone threw out 15 flights a day that's what Robbed was worried about ' 15 flights a day is  a ridiculous number and should not even be taken seriously

 

[Worldport]

i really hope your right robbedagain. For all of us. Presently, you have all the proof you need by comparing what you have with what the cwa has and what non union delta has, and i can assure you that we have crumbs when compared.
I know cb said we will get more than the cwa, and weasel confirmed that but those comments are not confirmed or reference anything other than hope. My comments have been confirmed by the lack of an agreement. If CB or anyone else was offered something better than the cwa, they would have already signed. The proof is your own shiatty paycheck. And thats the story and thats how you know that you werent offered more than the cwa and that weasel is full of it. As far as delta, yes management can do what it wants. But our management was given the ok to contract out more of our stations and to pay us 30% less and with no ps and less of everything else. You are presently living in horrid when compared to delta. Btw delta has about 4,000 more cargo workers than us and more stations than us.

But when you come out with 15 flights a day scope it ruins your credibility and I find it hard to believe anything else you say. Stay with reasonable predictions

 

[Tim Nelson]

But when you come out with 15 flights a day scope it ruins your credibility and I find it hard to believe anything else you say. Stay with reasonable predictions

Peeps can do their own research. I'm not worried about credibility. 15 flights a day is what an AGC told me, although they are asking for 5. The TWU has 20 flights a day for new stations, and we have 25 I believe, so if they settle on 15 flights a day, that will bring in several more stations. I'm uncomfortable with 15 flights but that's a likely scenario along with the other things I mentioned. Obviously, I'd love to go back to the previous TWU level of 7 flights or even less. Deal me in with that thinking!

 

[Worldport]

Tim Nelson just wrote on the AMT thread:

"It seems to me that all TWU/IAM groups are stuck with the Association until at least a TA is reached. Then, afterwards, I would think it would make alot of sense to go the same direction as our stews and pilots and instead of our union contracting out its representation to 3rd parties like the TWU, IAM, or even AMFA, why not bring our representation in house to protect our interest as our pilots and stews do? I mean amfa is still a 3rd party Labor Organization."

You see this is always the ultimate goal with Mr Nelson. It's always in his mind that he wants to start that independent Union idea of his up again. It's been his ultimate and only goal going back about 20 years now. As he did the last time, he'll label himself the "interim director" and when it goes to a vote for a elected leader since he started the enterprise he'll assume to win the position.

This has always been and always will be his sole motivation. He wants to get away from the fumes in the ORD Bagroom and build a throne that he can sit on at the top.

And he knows that when we get a JCBA that agenda is finished. He'll spend the rest of his days in that Bagroom waiting for the day he can afford to retire. He's FAST running out of time. Let's guess a date for when Tim is going to be able to afford to retire? I'm guessing 67 years old.

All men want to be rich, rich men want to be king and a king isn't happy till....... Tim could fill the blanks

 

[Kev3188]

 Someone threw out 15 flights a day that's what Robbed was worried about ' 15 flights a day is  a ridiculous number and should not even be taken seriously

I hear ya, but any numbers regarding Scope should be taken absolutely seriously.

What was the threshold in the LAA CBA? 17?

 

[Worldport]

Nothing is new that I really think that our union shouldn't contract out our representation to 3rd parties. I thought you already knew that I didn't believe in contracting out our union's representation? I've been fairly explicit about it over the past 20 years. Duh.

We have no control over the Association nor are we members of it nor did we vote on it. We need a vote and I'm thinking that may be a wise endeavor after we get a ratification. Nobody listens and our control is nothing.

Like I said, we are stuck with this association for now, but I think our group needs to seriously consider following the stews and pilots and bringing the representation services of our union, in house. It has never made any sense to contract out with these 3rd parties to service our union. But that's for our group to decide. Obviously, you have other views and that is fine.

You would never get an idea like that off the ground if we are making $30+ this time your window is shut. Where's that video?

 

[robbedagain]

Tim  I was going by top scale  thats where i got the 33