JetBlue,TV & AA

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/5/2003 3:17:56 PM Buck wrote:
[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]Please explain your vision of Value Pricing? What I see is eliminating the amenities in the coach. Such things like the Computer Power Port system, should be an extra fee etc... [BR][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P][/P]----------------[/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]One more time - value pricin:[BR][BR]1. Reduce the number of fares on any give route to no more than 5[BR]2. Eliminate change penalties - just charge the difference between what they paid and currently available fare[BR]3. Raise lowest fares to at least a break even cost[BR]4. Lower the highest (current unrestricted fare) to 1/2 of what it currently is[BR]5. Don't get caught in money losing "fare wars" for the 21 day advance purchase traveller with airlines that don't want to go along.[BR][BR]To take it a step further:[BR] [BR]6. eliminate the "power port" completely. A laptop computer in clear air turbulence is a danger.[BR]7. limit first class to those who paid for it, or upgrade those who paid full Y fare.[BR][BR][/P]

 

[Buck]

[blockquote]
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On 1/5/2003 2:36:57 PM Hopeful wrote:

Doesn't UAL employees hold stock in that Compnay?
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[/blockquote]

Yes, but you will have to ask over at United for a detailed explanation concerning their ESOP. You can ask the moderator at www.the-mechanic.com also.

Please explain your vision of Value Pricing? What I see is eliminating the amenities in the coach. Such things like the Computer Power Port system, should be an extra fee etc...

 

[Hopeful]

Keep in mind that profit sharing is a lump sump payout, not a "raise" and it is not considered in retirement calculation. Although a lump sump is a nice "bonus", I would rather have even half of that lump sump payout in form of an annual raise so pension and benefits can increase.

KCFLYER, you state that "contracts" are not good in a cyclical business. Let me give you an example why it works both ways(good idea vs bad idea) In 1993 the TWU at American voted in a 6 1/2% payraise over 6 years. For most of the years between 93 and 99, American was extremely profitable. They sent departmental Vice Presidents throughout the system year after year stating how profitable they were. Some of these VEEPS were asked by employees why we couldn't share in the wealth, other than a "capped" profit sharing plan. Their response was , "sorry, we can't give you anything because you have a contract." And now these same managers are coming around asking to forego upcoming 3% raises. I suppose now it's ok to open up the contracts!

KCFLYER: What do you suggest the workers agree to? AMR will cut heads regardless of what concessions they get from the workers. AMR CEO states that we have to change the way we do business. I agree!!!!!!!! But American needs to change the way it compensates its executives and over staffs management.
Bear in mind, concessions did not help Eastern, did not help PANAM and did not help TWA. These airlines were never at the top of the salary game.

By the way, The TWU got a pretty decent raise for its mechanics and related in 2001. It was well voted in prior to 9/11. But guess what, it came at the expenese of profit sharing that used to receive, albeit "capped." When all the negotiations were taking place throughout 2001, AMR was still financially formidable, even after purchasing TWA. But they took the profit sharing away.

 

[Diesel8]

Hopeful,

I have a friend, who is a friend of a friend whose third cousin second daughter's (by law) son, who says you got to do better than that?

Again, you said the pay was low, you must already have the numbers, right, otherwise what would be the point. For all you know, apparently, jetBlue could be paying their mechanics mopre than AA.

 

[Boomer]

Hopeful,

There are many ways to address the pension side of the equation but one idea would be for stock options to be granted to all work groups based on Company performance and for those options to be placed in a "variable benefit" pension plan which would be deferred compensation and outside of the "defined" or "contributory 401(k)" plans now in existence.

 

[KCFlyer]

[P]
[BLOCKQUOTE][BR]----------------[BR]On 1/5/2003 4:57:20 PM Hopeful wrote:
[P]Keep in mind that profit sharing is a lump sump payout, not a "raise" and it is not considered in retirement calculation. Although a lump sump is a nice "bonus", I would rather have even half of that lump sump payout in form of an annual raise so pension and benefits can increase.[BR][BR]----------------[/P][/BLOCKQUOTE]
[P]That pretty much sums up why SWA is different than AA, UAL, or U. Southwest employees know for a fact that if there are no profits to share, there is no profit sharing. Therefore they are constantly looking for ways to minimize costs. You said you would rather have a guaranteed annual raise so that pension and benefit obligations can increase. Where is the incentive to keep costs low if something is "guaranteed"? [/P]

 

[Hopeful]

I have an acquaintance who is employed by the PA of NY&NJ in the real estate sector. JetBlue has had landing fees exempted at the request of Legislators from Queens and Buffalo. The fees were not "deferred" but "exempted" as in no charge. As far as pay, AMR mechanics pay has been posted. Where is JetBlues numbers for the mechanics?

DId you not remember the Representaives from Buffalo and Queens warning American Airlines on the Congress floor the very day JetBlue's first flight took off?

 

[Diesel8]

Hopeful,

Perhaps you can enlighten me, as to what favors the PANYNJ is doing jetBlue.
jetBlue requested and received landing slots at JFK, just like any other airline could have done, no foul play there. Did we have a little help, yes perhaps, but no one ever helps, AA, UAL, DAL???

Secondly, jetBlue, along with every one else serving JFK, has seen a sharp increase in landing fees, due to the reductions in flights. As a matter of fact, PANYNJ, as opposed to most other airports cahrges landing fees based upon max takeoff wts. (At least so I am informed) Whoe ever told you that jetBlue does not pay landing fees, is probably the same one, who thinks we do not pay for the airplanes.

I am starting to think, that you just dislike jetBlue. That is your choice, but it is a shame, because we have a lot of fun here.

As far as our pay, you must already know, and there for there is no reason for me telling you, otherwise how could you argue that it is low? I eagerly await your numbers!

P.S. I did not call you jealous, I really do not care whether or not you are.

 

[Hopeful]

Now you're a mind reader, eh Diesel? Prior posts state what AMR mechanics make. How about this one, I know Roger Hughes, the head of Quality Assurance at JetBlue. He was in charge at JFK for American. Believe me, you know darn well Jet Blue mechanics don't make what the AA guys do.

 

[Hopeful]

By the way, the acquaintance is my spouse!
Did you remember the Buffalo and Queens legislators on the floor of Congress warningNEWS RELEASE:
A Statement by Congresswoman Slaughter On the Proposed Purchase of TWA by American Airlines
This deal would trigger the airline consolidation we have feared in the wake of a proposed United/US Airways merger. We could end up with only three major carriers to serve the nation. It would be a travesty for the new Administration to let this go forward. I wonder how the flying public would feel if the disastrous holiday season they just endured was about to become the industry standard. This underscores the need for the U.S. Department of Transportation to issue its Competition Guidelines to prevent big airlines from running smaller, low-cost carriers out of town.

### American Airlines?

 

[Hopeful]

It's good that you mentioned pensions. When the government leglislates the change in pension plans to a cash balance plan, most workers will lose a good portion of their pension.

 

[Hopeful]

My Oh mY Diesel, you are awfully defensive about protecting JetBlue's wage charts, aren't you. After all isn't JetBlue's successes based on being a "low cost carrier?" How does an airline become "low cost?" Hmmmmmm, let me think! Oh yes, for starters, let's pay less than the major carriers do. That includes Ceo Needle-man who takes a $305,000.00 yearly salary as opposed to over $600,000 for Carty not including stock options. So the top 4 execs at jet blue earn $305,000.00 per years but they pay all their employees what the major carriers earn. I think not!

 

[Hopeful]

KCFLYER, now you are twisting what I said about pensions. Even at AMerican, when we did receive a profit sharing check, I personally would have taken even half that amount in the form of a raise. As you can see by recent headlines, since when is it the responsibility of employees to keep cost low.

Ooops, I forgot, it is OUR responsibility. We are responsible for keeping costs low, we are the ones who get laid off and we are the ones who take the pay cuts.

 

[KCFlyer]

HOpeful, a start would be to try to think of managment as being part of a team. The same team. I feel that you look at mangement as "the enemy", when they're on your side. [BR][BR]Do you think an offensive lineman making the NFL minimum of $400,000 can resent his quarterback making $5 million a year? No...he pretty much has to get bruised, cut and battered as he blocks. He does all the grunt work and the pretty boy gets the paycheck. Hardly fair, but they work together on the same team to get something done.

 

[KCFlyer]

Hopeful...lets say they paid their employees the same as the other airlines. How does this affect AA? But you say they don't pay as much, based on what their executives make (salary only) According to LUV's proxy statement, their executives made the following in salary:[BR][BR]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT color=#000000]Herb Kelleher - $356,000[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT color=#000000]Colleen Barrett - $219,270[/FONT][/P]
[P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"][FONT color=#000000]James Parker - $198,335[BR]Gary Kelly - $213,246[BR][/FONT][FONT size=2][BR]But we've just seen numbers where LUV's mechanics make more than UAL's. So...maybe it's possible that JetBlues employees are paid better than you think? [BR][/FONT][BR]But if you're certain that JetBlue employees earn less than AA employees, shouldn't you be much happier at AA than the JetBlue folks are over there? I'm just wondering why you are so concerned about how much JetBlue employees are making.[/P]