July - IAM Fleet Service Discussions

[700UW]

The 90 day rule was in the bankruptcy contract, it is no longer in the current CBA. Why are you posting wrong information?

And the leadership didnt accept it, the members ratified it with a gun to their heads.

And your union has no pension, and you let the company outsource res and other jobs and yes I know that is no longer the case, but yet not all the jobs lost were brought back.

How is the CWA doing at AA? lol.

 

[IAM Informer]

Johnboy why is it that a third party is doing the negotiations between the company and cwa. My understanding is the company didn't have enough people to do all the open contracts. so they choose to get a outside negotiator to talk with the cwa . Is it possibly because they know you folks will take whatever is thrown at you so let's subcontract out our negotiations in dealing with the CWA , hell they are not only in bed with the company but are making breakfast for them in the morning.

 

[blue collar]

The 90 day rule was in the bankruptcy contract, it is no longer in the current CBA. Why are you posting wrong information?

And the leadership didnt accept it, the members ratified it with a gun to their heads.

And your union has no pension, and you let the company outsource res and other jobs and yes I know that is no longer the case, but yet not all the jobs lost were brought back.

How is the CWA doing at AA? lol.

Why the two of you argue about who's union is better is beyond me... You guys should be supporting one another, we're all in this together.
Also, about the 'gun to their head' metaphor, some would rather die standing up than living on their knees. I'm of the mindset of making the judge take it from me rather than voting it away.
As much as you are blaming the membership you should be blaming the leadership. They brought it back for a vote, but they are also supposed to educating the membership as to what their vote means (as well as the membership educating themselves).

Edit- the three of you guys aren't helping your unions at all by arguing whose union is better

 

[IAM Informer]

Why the two of you argue about who's union is better is beyond me... You guys should be supporting one another, we're all in this together.
Also, about the 'gun to their head' metaphor, some would rather die standing up than living on their knees. I'm of the mindset of making the judge take it from me rather than voting it away.
As much as you are blaming the membership you should be blaming the leadership. They brought it back for a vote, but they are also supposed to educating the membership as to what their vote means (as well as the membership educating themselves).

Edit- the three of you guys aren't helping your unions at all by arguing whose union is better

I agree 100 percent.. You have some very VALID points.. But you have to remember that the leadership of this union are in a different tax bracket and really doesn't give a rats ass about language and scope there only concern is getting the membership to vote on the pay increases because according to the bylaws they get there RAISES based on the percentage of WAGE increase they bring back to the membership .. Scope and language and extra vacation and holidays doesn't doesn't increase their 114,000.00 a year salary

 

[wings396]

The 90 day rule was in the bankruptcy contract, it is no longer in the current CBA. Why are you posting wrong information?

And the leadership didnt accept it, the members ratified it with a gun to their heads.

And your union has no pension, and you let the company outsource res and other jobs and yes I know that is no longer the case, but yet not all the jobs lost were brought back.

How is the CWA doing at AA? lol.

It was actually the 60 Days, not 90. Although it is gone, the after effects still linger fresh in the minds of those who fell under it.
I'm sure that John is just using it as an example of the mentality of the IAM leadership that permitted this to begin with.
Would they do something like it again?

 

[700UW]

It was dont in bankruptcy, I seriously doubt the leadership had much of a choice to what was in the concessions.

I was on the NC for M&R during bankruptcy part II, it wasnt fun and down right ugly.

And he and his CWA lives in a glass house, he shouldnt be throwing stones, now should he?

 

[blue collar]

I agree 100 percent.. You have some very VALID points.. But you have to remember that the leadership of this union are in a different tax bracket and really doesn't give a rats ass about language and scope there only concern is getting the membership to vote on the pay increases because according to the bylaws they get there RAISES based on the percentage of WAGE increase they bring back to the membership .. Scope and language and extra vacation and holidays doesn't doesn't increase their 114,000.00 a year salary

You agree 100%, yet in this post you bash the CWA. You realize that they are sitting on the same side of the table as you, don't you?
I believe that the leadership does care about scope and language, but I don't think that they are willing to fight as much as the guys on the floor. I think they also dont have as much faith in the membership as they should, which by looking as some voting results I can see why. I don't agree with the path that the leadership has taken at times, because, I don't believe in keeping more guys on the payroll for more concessions.


And no 700, he is doing the same thing you guys are doing. Are you trying to say that 2 wrongs make a right?

 

[wings396]

It was dont in bankruptcy, I seriously doubt the leadership had much of a choice to what was in the concessions.

I was on the NC for M&R during bankruptcy part II, it wasnt fun and down right ugly.

And he and his CWA lives in a glass house, he shouldnt be throwing stones, now should he?

Here we go again....
The Fleet group was the ONLY one to have this BS, no other workgroup on the properly. Had this 60 day thing been somthing the company wanted, I'm sure they would have crammed it down others throats too.
It is the general consensus that our own union boys developed this rule as a seniority cleansing measure to keep outsiders from coming to their home stations.

 

[737823]

The 90 day rule was in the bankruptcy contract, it is no longer in the current CBA. Why are you posting wrong information?

And the leadership didnt accept it, the members ratified it with a gun to their heads.

And your union has no pension, and you let the company outsource res and other jobs and yes I know that is no longer the case, but yet not all the jobs lost were brought back.

How is the CWA doing at AA? lol.

Has the IAM brought back all the positions they facilitated, supported, and encouraged management to outsource at USAir? Has the IAM brought back wages and benefits to their pre-BK levels? How are the section 6 negotiations working out for them?

Josh

 

[700UW]

Are you that obstuse?

Fleet Service had three rounds of concession forced upon them by two chapter 11 cases. They voted to approve the language that outsourced work.

They had a gun pointed at them, you are just a pot stirrer, they are currently in the first Section 6 negotiations from the two previous bankruptcy contracts and the transition agreement that the west basically got passed because of the huge raises they would get as HP's pay scale was bottom of the barrel and the east IAM members warned them of what was going to happen.

 

[737823]

Are you that obstuse?

Fleet Service had three rounds of concession forced upon them by two chapter 11 cases. They voted to approve the language that outsourced work.

They had a gun pointed at them, you are just a pot stirrer, they are currently in the first Section 6 negotiations from the two previous bankruptcy contracts and the transition agreement that the west basically got passed because of the huge raises they would get as HP's pay scale was bottom of the barrel and the east IAM members warned them of what was going to happen.

Well if you're using the abrogation as justification for the IAM allowing the company to outsource work, couldn't the same be said of the CWA? Didn't they also face abrogation?

Josh

 

[700UW]

Get your facts straight.

Every union on the property gave three rounds of concessions in two different chapter 11 cases. The pilots reached concessions out of bankruptcy twice, US was in bankruptcy all ready when Dr Bronner the majority owner of US in the first case threatened chapter 7 before Christmas in the first case.

The company filed Section 1113 C motions against all the unions, the only group that had an abrogation was Mechanic and Related.

Fleet didnt, the reached a "TA" in bankruptcy three times.

The members have the choice to reject and face the courts, fleet didnt.

AFA, AMFA, ALPA, CWA, IAM, TWU, IBT, PFAA, and basically every union in the airline industry faced chapter 11 concessions or concessions out of bankruptcy since 9/11, SARS and the run up in jet fuel prices.

The CWA let US outsource Res and other jobs to foreign countries, El Salvador and the Philippines, those jobs have come back, but not as many came back as were outsourced. They have no pension but the IAM at US does.

If you havent noticed the trend in the airlines for the past 10 years is to layoff and outsource, no union has been able to stop this trend yet.

So why dont you educate yourself instead of constantly posting hatred towards the IAM without facts.

Myself and others have showed you the facts many times and you consistently ignore them.

So has your company partaken in the TARP funds?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Well if you're using the abrogation as justification for the IAM allowing the company to outsource work, couldn't the same be said of the CWA? Didn't they also face abrogation?

Josh

737, it's hopeless arguing against someone who negotiated his own job away and didn't know it.

The CWA obviously came out better and the witness to that is why Canale is gone gone. The IAM truly sucked during those BK dealings. The CWA is far far ahead than the ramp even though the CWA hasn't represented the upstairs as long as the IAM has represented the ramp. The IAM pension was negotiated with the abolishment of the 2% match, 6% forced company contribution and the tossing of profit sharing away, in return the IAM guaranteed $81 defined benefit. And although the company puts in the same amount of money into the IAM pension plan as it did in 2005, the IAM is withholding more of it starting in 2014 and slashing the 'guaranteed defined benefit' by 40%. To make matters worse, the defined benefit of $48 per month x amount of years could be slashed further if the current trend of IAM membership losses continues at 5% per year.

And in case anyone is wondering, yes, the TWU sucks so just because I'm speaking the truth about how Canale and the IAM hosed everyone, the TWU, IMO, isn't necessarily an attractive alternative.

regards,

 

[700UW]

Glad to see your posting lies again Timmy.

Still sore after getting destroyed in the election?

How many times do I have to tell you I was not utility when I left US, I was a stock clerk, and the committee didnt negotiate away the jobs, the CBA was a final offer, something you cant understand as you never been allowed to negotiate a contract nor have been trained in it.

Funny since you are a man of the cloth you constantly lie.

 

[ograc]

Since September 11th, the environment for collective bargaining within the airline industry, for all of labor has been brutal. Existing contracts have been stomped on, the contracts have been opened in many cases, through bankruptcy proceedings that have reduced talks to a "take it or else" environment for many labor organizations. In the end labor has survived the onslaught. Unfortunately, in the end, much has been lost. Members' jobs, wages, vacation and sick time, benefits and work rule language to name a few. To date the financial environment has changed in the industry. Airlines are posting profits again. It's time for every union to regain some of what was sacrificed in order to keep their employers in business. Pointing fingers at any unions' leadership teams or their respective members for decisions made during those difficult times is easy to do. Counter productive... but easy. If we can learn from past mistakes we are better for it. It's labor's turn! Let's make the best of it for the betterment of all members!
ograc