July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

ummm....after paying ALPA dues for 20 years I got pretty pissed when Prater sided with the east and tried to throw the West under the bus, in direct violation of ALPA merger policy and the ALPA C&BLs.

of course the liars on this board, who post fallacies about the Nic, and try to rationalize the theft of West jobs, have little regard for the fact that ALPA had a DFR to the membership just like the scab union, and therefore can't pick sides.


I would like to point out that once again we have east posters thinking they are entitled to something from ALPA that the West was not entitled.

Loyalty and protection??? Really,,,,, you are too stupid to realize that ALPA tried to protect you from yourself!!!

I believe the TWA pilots won their DFR against ALPA, and remember you have to "HAVE SOMETHING" before it can be stolen, NO JCBA NO LIST!

 

[nic4us]

The disciples give many plusses. Too bad they can't even begin to cite a statute broken. That is the pattern of their behavior and why they sue endlessly over a lost cause. Pathetic. Please cite the law broken. You can't. Unbelievable.

Well, well, well,,,,,,,,what do we have here??

"Sue endlessly"..??....

Hey scab...your lies are also getting tiring.

The West has filed exactly One,1, suit...which we got a jury verdict in our favor.

Now the scab union and the east....how many times have they run to federal court???

Washington DC district court over the Nic....(dismissed when usapa is voted in)

RICO (dismissed with prejudice)

NYC district (dismissed with prejudice)

North Carolina district (guilty...injunction in place)

Arizona district in front of Silver....while usapa did not file...usapa filed every single conceivable motion to prolong the case and dodge the answere to the questions...and I suspect when the answere is given...will appeal to the 9th circuit, where they will also file every conceivable motion to prolong when the justices finally uphold the... .....um...yes you are indeed a scab union verdict.

 

[nic4us]

I believe the TWA pilots won their DFR against ALPA, and remember you have to "HAVE SOMETHING" before it can be stolen, NO JCBA NO LIST!

Really??? what was stolen from the TWA pilots that won their case against ALPA?

 

[Pi brat]

So an arbitration is only valid if the majority likes the result. Got it.

Too early to come that conclusion but the majority sure has been able to drag it out, haven't they?

 

[nic4us]

1) The primary point of contention noted was the pension, which, having nothing whatsoever to do with YOU or your precious nic, I wouldn't expect you to even notice in any way, shape or form.....Typical.

2) Gee! and to think that I was so completely churlish as to forget to thank them for giving away our pensions, literally in the middle of the night, while denying us any previously promised vote on that! What a truly fine fashion in which they certainly did "protect" us all from ourselves! Seriously; what planet did you really come from and now actually live on? 😉

Okay...I apologize ...IF,,, Breeze's point about ALPA owed the east "loyalty and protection",,meant nothing more than ALPA owed the east a vote in the pension give away.

AND, his reference to "loyalty and protection" had nothing to do with the Nic.

However, I don't think that is what he wrote. "Protection" from who or what? Protection from an arbitration after the fact? That is how I read it.

ALPA did not owe the east anything more than what it owed the West.....and what usapa now owes the West.

The east has no special entitlements that you are all demanding...as a matter of fact, during the arbitration your position was a complete joke and never going to happen because you where in no position to make demands. Kind of like usapa now. Relegated to spectator in its own affairs because it is too stupid to understand its position.

 

[nic4us]

Too early to come that conclusion but the majority sure has been able to drag it out, haven't they?

Well here is a conclusion that it is not too early to make.

usapa is the highest cost pilot union......and represents the lowest paid pilots in the industry.

Forget about AMR...if we merge with Spirit tomorrow, they would hand us are asses in a seniority arbitration just on pay scales.

 

[EastUS1]

Okay...I apologize ...IF,,, Breeze's point about ALPA owed the east "loyalty and protection",,meant nothing more than ALPA owed the east a vote in the pension give away.


ALPA did not owe the east anything more than what it owed the West.....

The east has no special entitlements that you are all demanding...

1) No worries. This place amounts to nothing more than an outlet for mutual venting, and sometimes occasional grins for us all. Nothing said here will have any real effect outside this little bubble in cyberspace anyway.

2) Agreed, and, whatever our manifest differences; they failed both sides miserably by producing something so heinously unworkable that it leaves us, 5 years later, still tearing away at one another here, with no end in sight as yet. Whatever any/all think of the nic, or "who's fault" anything is here...well...this mess is a direct result of alpa's brilliant production of the nic, without any possible argument to the contrary. Even given my personal, earnest beliefs as to how seniority should be established and respected; most people would have been content with ANYthing that produced any mutally acceptable solution. A typical result, that would have however worked, is one where both parties are more or less equally pissed off or equally content. Nic failed that test miserably.

3) Nor does the west....so here we all are in this happy little playground 😉

 

[nic4us]

1) No worries. This place amounts to nothing more than an outlet for mutual venting and, sometimes occasional grins for us all. Nothing said here will have any real effect outside this little bubble in cyberspace anyway.

2) Agreed, and, whatever our manifest differences; they failed both sides miserably by producing something so heinously unworkable that it leaves us, 5 years later, still tearing away at one another here, with no end in sight as yet. Whatever any/all think of the nic...well...this mess is a direct result of it, without any possible argument to the contrary.

3) Nor does the west....so here we all are in this happy little playground 😉

Okay...the only problem I have with that post is....why is the Nic unworkable?

And, don't give me any decades more service,,,,AWA was a lesser airline,,,,,I made 200K in 1986 BS....

Because that is all irrelevant.

When you honestly answere my question you will see where the problem lies.

 

[EastUS1]

Okay...the only problem I have with that post is....why is the Nic unworkable?

And, don't give me any decades more service,,,,AWA was a lesser airline,,,,,I made 200K in 1986 BS....

Because that is all irrelevant.

When you honestly answere my question you will see where the problem lies.

You have your reasons, yet choose to find them all "irrelevant". What can I say then? If it makes your evening merrier to again throw the fault flag around...well...have fun with that. 😉 The perception of the majority of the pilots here is that nic got is so far wrong as to make it unacceptable. That a minority segment of the work force enthusiastically supports it fails to change that.

 

[Pi brat]

Well here is a conclusion that it is not too early to make.

usapa is the highest cost pilot union......and represents the lowest paid pilots in the industry.

Forget about AMR...if we merge with Spirit tomorrow, they would hand us are asses in a seniority arbitration just on pay scales.

Your point?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Really??? what was stolen from the TWA pilots that won their case against ALPA?

Their DOH ! MM

 

[BoeingBoy]

Jim,

I have read this forum for a long time, and I have a question: Is relative position (in your opinion) the only "fair" way to integrate two pilot groups? It certainly seems obvious that you feel so, but I wanted to check.

Thanks,

Fly

Almost right. I've constantly believed that relative position by equipment is the best starting point, with minimal C&R's to cover special situations. Someone who has the seniority be to a mid-level A320 captain the day before the merger should have the seniority to be a mid-level A320 captain on the combined list. None of this "a furloughed pilot on one side should be senior to a 757 captain on the other side" because he somehow "earned" it.

Jim....

 

[nic4us]

Their DOH ! MM

Wrong.....

What was deprived the TWA pilots was fair representation.

Know of any other unions that fail their duty of fair representation?

 

[nic4us]

Your point?

My point would be that your reply to trader...

Too early to come that conclusion but the majority sure has been able to drag it out, haven't they?

Is flippant when we all know the answere to trader's remark, and it is not too early to tell.

 

[nic4us]

You have your reasons, yet choose to find them all "irrelevant". What can I say then? If it makes your evening merrier to again throw the fault flag around...well...have fun with that. 😉 The perception of the majority of the pilots here is that nic got is so far wrong as to make it unacceptable. That a minority segment of the work force enthusiastically supports it fails to change that.

The majority's perception is also irrelevant...particularly when they have no say in its acceptability.

Acceptance was/is only mandated for the company contractually.