July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cactusboy53]

The dream of getting a contract from Team Tempe is such a joke! Do you realize that AWA has always had the worst pay and working conditions since 1983? Nothing has changed. Nothing will change until there is a corporate transaction. Get rid of AWA management and the industry standard contract will appear like majic. AWA has always been the lowest of the low and continues to run this airline.

Hate

Reallllllly.....So could you possibly explain WHY APA & LCC is using the scheduling section, vacation & PBS as a template for the term sheet? Could you explain why we (USAPA collectively) are attempting to get APA to re-visit these conditions and get the company to use the entire AWA C2004 (5:15/day, full pay MX, full pay Cancel, etc)?

That AWA management is one of the party's that negotiated one of the better post-9/11 contracts.

Perhaps your time would be better spent if you went into Wings and actually READ the contracts and made your OWN opinions about what is what (vs parroting your base leadership's mantra...."It's not fair", "The Nic is Dead", "DOH is the golden rule".....). Be a LEARNER, not a HATTER.

CB

 

[flybynite]

http://www.leveraged...discuss-merger/

"Speaking yesterday at a National Press Club luncheon in D.C., Parker reiterated his long-expressed desire to merge the two airlines. He was joined at the head table at the event by the leadership of AMR’s three unions: the Allied Pilots Association, the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, and the Transport Workers Union."

What??? No USAPPY at the breakfast table?

Neither was the AFA or IAM.

And he had his ass handed to him by Horton the next morning.

 

[EastUS1]

...still owes me....

Yeah, got it; "owes me" is, and long has been your theme song 😉

 

[AAviator]

Reallllllly.....So could you possibly explain WHY APA & LCC is using the scheduling section, vacation & PBS as a template for the term sheet? Could you explain why we (USAPA collectively) are attempting to get APA to re-visit these conditions and get the company to use the entire AWA C2004 (5:15/day, full pay MX, full pay Cancel, etc)?

That AWA management is one of the party's that negotiated one of the better post-9/11 contracts.

Perhaps your time would be better spent if you went into Wings and actually READ the contracts and made your OWN opinions about what is what (vs parroting your base leadership's mantra...."It's not fair", "The Nic is Dead", "DOH is the golden rule".....). Be a LEARNER, not a HATTER.

CB

That may be the least of your problems...

If AA emerges alone and then buys LCC, ya'll will be working for $144/hr on the 319, a new B scale, and the E190's will be a new C scale...

The CLA APA has with Parker drops dead when AA emerges.

 

[700UW]

Didn't USAirways come begging for a bailout too?

America West paid it back, with interest and stayed alive...good for you it did, or your shabby airline would have never been rescued by AWA.

Both loans were consolidated, and both loans were paid pack by taking another loan out from GECAS.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

 

[cactusboy53]

Negative.....


I never in my life have asked NIC for anything, since ALPA betrayed me....You should feel the same.

That!!!! Trader....that! Is where betrayal began for the USAirways pilots....not with the NIC award!! And that, my friend is why East pilots are willing to live on LOA 93 until they die.

Loyalty....there it is. I hope you can get something outta this.

Really, guys.....after paying ALPA dues for 15-20 yrs, wouldn't you expect more for your money in the area of loyalty and protection?

breeze

Technically Arbitrator Nicolau was ultimately the arbitrator that was selected by the US Air MEC, and agreed upon by the AWA MEC. The process that ensued was first a MEDIATION that was conducted by Arbitrator Nicolau.

After several attempts to get the parties to the "middle", Arbitrator Nicolau then instructed parties that there would be an arbitration.

Arbitrator George Nicolau was HIRED by both MEC's under the guidlines of the ALPA merger policy. There was no malfeasance or wrong doing found in the proceedings.

One party balked at the decision and had made this the mess it is today. Arbitrator Nicolau is a decorated WWII veteran, and one of the most experienced jurists in the nation. Just because one thinks one was cheated, walked away, voted in a new "union", etc. does not make the process invalid. It just makes one a malcontent.

 

[nic4us]

"It was the first to get money in 2001."



Which doesn't at all change the fact they were first to come begging for a bailout.

More revisionist history.

As I recall, AWA was indeed the first to receive an ATSB loan, but was not the first to inquire as to the terms. Basically, every airline looked into the money, AWA took the loan, and the terms gave pause to others who may have had other resources, and thought they could do a better deal elsewhere. Obviously, AAA was not one of them and had to take an ATSB loan, which absent the merger would have been in default.

 

[nic4us]

Yeah, got it; "owes me" is, and long has been your theme song 😉

Yep...that is what happens when you go in debt....you owe something to someone else. In this case usapa is in debt to me.

 

[Pi brat]

First to pay it back...with interest while your scrap heap was going back into Chapter 11, soon to be followed by Chapter 7 before you were rescued.

With the money raised from the MERGER! Along with the original US Airways. Amazing.

 

[traderjake]

First of all, of the 4 slotting arbitrations, so far only 2 have panned out and are on down the road with their careers....as I have pointed out before. On the other 2, the jury is still out. It's not the wave of the future as you would have us believe.

....call it seniority or longetivity, it doesn't matter

the time invested by the 10 yr pilot is more important....

Ain't gonna happen!

Everyone has the right to be wrong, including you.

The job each pilot brought to the merger is more important than the time it took him to get that job.

Your method of seniority integration hasn't been used in 20 year so yes, that does make the last four the "wave of the future".

In the mean time your being wrong is costing us a lot of money and time away from our families..

 

[azdryheat]

By that absurd excuse for even any slight semblance of "logic"; then it is equally true that ANY action of USAPA has been/is blessed with your "signature", since, like it or not (which I certainly did NOT with alpa) you legally "accepted" USAPA as your bargaining agent...and with that all of it's CBL's, among which is DOH. Happy now? 😉 You logically can't have it both ways, although, with the complete lack of ANY actual logic dependably displayed whenever any of you feebly attempt to justify the west position...well... I'm sure you'll try to 😉

By that absurd excuse for even any slight semblance of "logic"; then it is equally true that ANY action of USAPA has been/is blessed with your "signature", since, like it or not (which I certainly did NOT with alpa) you legally "accepted" USAPA as your bargaining agent...and with that all of it's CBL's, among which is DOH. Happy now? 😉 You logically can't have it both ways, although, with the complete lack of ANY actual logic dependably displayed whenever any of you feebly attempt to justify the west position...well... I'm sure you'll try to 😉

1) USAPA CBL's are not agreements or contracts, however yes all members are bound by any agreements with the company, you can't pick and choose.
2) By your logic, any CBL's are worthless and do noot have to be followed.

 

[EastCheats]

Both loans were consolidated, and both loans were paid pack by taking another loan out from GECAS.

Dont let the facts get in your way.

Yawn.

Why are so hung up on this subject? At this point who the hell cares?

 

[700UW]

He posted wrong information, I corrected it, plain and simple.

 

[nic4us]

That may be the least of your problems...

If AA emerges alone and then buys LCC, ya'll will be working for $144/hr on the 319, a new B scale, and the E190's will be a new C scale...

The CLA APA has with Parker drops dead when AA emerges.

Some pretty big IFs in that second sentence.

 

[nic4us]

He posted wrong information, I corrected it, plain and simple.

Well, except for the GECAS part, your correction would have been ...um....um.....correct.