July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

Pay attention to the MOU USAPA is going to put out. Embraer is currently negotiating with AMR about the return of ERJ regional jets from its American Eagle Airlines division. AMR has said it wants to relax its strict scope clause, which currently limits its feed to 50-seat jets, to 88-seat aircraft.
It looks as if Silva is targeting the North American market, with 2350 new jets. How does that compare to the entire R-J lift now being operated? The ONLY WAY that happens is if United, Delta, and American succeed in carving out the scope clauses in their contracts, which means that if you are flying what is considered “mainline” aircraft today, you will be likely furloughed out to fly in one of many outsourcing operations that will all bid against one another for work. http://www.operation...aration-of-war/​

Not a problem for you. As you east pilots have done it before. Just remember this time IT IS NOT A RECALL TO MAINLINE.

 

[cleardirect]

DO NOT GIVE UP SCOPE!!!!!!!

Just like don't give up the pension?

Really check. You and I don't have a choice.

Besides. Aren't you so senior and aren't you going to get DOH? So what do you care? Could it be that you were furloughed at the merger and know you might get furloughed again? Otherwise why so upset about the RJ's? Don't worry usapa will protect you just like they have protected the west.

 

[luvthe9]

Just like don't give up the pension?

Really check. You and I don't have a choice.

Besides. Aren't you so senior and aren't you going to get DOH? So what do you care? Could it be that you were furloughed at the merger and know you might get furloughed again? Otherwise why so upset about the RJ's? Don't worry usapa will protect you just like they have protected the west.

Yes Pollock gave away my pension in the middle of the night with no vote we all know that now,yes I am pretty senior, however this scope issue is a big one to east,west and the APA, geez even the F/A's were smart enough to turn their deal down because of scope. Read the link.

 

[luvthe9]

1. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   OK guys, still think I am crying wolf? This is the most serious attack on your career in your entire life. We are now asking that every pilot publish this on every web board in the system to make all pilots aware of what Hummel and his cohorts are doing. The 9[sup]th[/sup] circuit judge also needs this information – not from any of us but from a seasoned attorney who is very familiar with the RLA. I have received phone calls from Steve Crimi, Paul Dorio and others who wish to remain anonymous for now. The information that I have been talking about is 100% true – you are about to get screwed in a way that makes Midatlantic look like Childs play.
   
   The cover? How’s this sound? The protections will be in place until such time as the pilots are able to bid for each others equipment. A single carrier contract will provide that in short order. Hummel and his cohorts are giving away your scope protection and including the NIC. ‘A contract at any price’ The court’s decision will not matter when both parties agree. His most recent sneaky maneuver is that he doesn’t want YOU to be able to even vote on it. He wants to call it an MOU and ram it down your throat.
   
   Shame on you if you’ve been fooled by him and shame on the coalition for lying to you while jumping in bed with Hummel. The bump in pay that you may or may not see will certainly cost you your career.
   
   The following is reprinted with permission of the author
   
   JimP
   
   
   
   
   ​
   From

 

[Beancounter]

1. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   OK guys, still think I am crying wolf? This is the most serious attack on your career in your entire life. We are now asking that every pilot publish this on every web board in the system to make all pilots aware of what Hummel and his cohorts are doing. The 9[sup]th[/sup] circuit judge also needs this information – not from any of us but from a seasoned attorney who is very familiar with the RLA. I have received phone calls from Steve Crimi, Paul Dorio and others who wish to remain anonymous for now. The information that I have been talking about is 100% true – you are about to get screwed in a way that makes Midatlantic look like Childs play.
   
   The cover? How’s this sound? The protections will be in place until such time as the pilots are able to bid for each others equipment. A single carrier contract will provide that in short order. Hummel and his cohorts are giving away your scope protection and including the NIC. ‘A contract at any price’ The court’s decision will not matter when both parties agree. His most recent sneaky maneuver is that he doesn’t want YOU to be able to even vote on it. He wants to call it an MOU and ram it down your throat.
   
   Shame on you if you’ve been fooled by him and shame on the coalition for lying to you while jumping in bed with Hummel. The bump in pay that you may or may not see will certainly cost you your career.
   
   The following is reprinted with permission of the author
   
   JimP
   
   
   
   
   
   ​
   
   From

Why is it my gut instinct is telling me to trust the author of this less than I trust Hummel?

Beaner

 

[luvthe9]

Why is it my gut instinct is telling me to trust the author of this less than I trust Hummel?

Beaner

conference call,

 

[Beancounter]

conference call,

You lost me Luv. It's a transcripted conference call?

Bean

 

[Claxon]

They do need labor support, just not our labor support - that has been made quite obvious.

We have NO leverage going forward.

This one sums up the stupidity of the westerners. Cleardirect has no clue about scope either.

 

[Claxon]

Just because your group and Luvn737 s had no clue about scope doesn t mean a thing. Cleardirect is absolutely the dumbest one with regard to scope. You better listen up. CleaRedirect will never come back after the scope debacle goes down.

 

[luvthe9]

You lost me Luv. It's a transcripted conference call?

Bean

Yes, you are right most is, can't say much more.

 

[cleardirect]

Yes Pollock gave away my pension in the middle of the night with no vote we all know that now,yes I am pretty senior, however this scope issue is a big one to east,west and the APA, geez even the F/A's were smart enough to turn their deal down because of scope. Read the link.

Really Pollock just gave it away? Why? Did he not want you to have a pension? did he not want to have a pension?

Do you honestly think that if he had said no you would have a pension today?
Do you honestly believe that if you had voted no you would have a pension today?

Go back to the LOA 93 arbitration transcripts and look for yourself. This is what what was said under oath. Am I to believe what you say or a guy that was there and under oath?

Q. And did the parties, in fact, reach an agreement regarding the termination of the pilot pension plan?

7 A. Well, not immediately we didn't. We fought the termination notices and the idea that they could simply come out from under the deficit at all stages of the federal government. We tried to engage the Department of Transportation and the White House and some aid to extend the deficit over a three-year period to a 30-year period.

15 We tried to engage legislative branch and Senator Spectrum and Senator Fore (phonetic) and others for legislation. Because, apart from the deficit, that -- the deficit was being created in part because the contingent liability interest rate was dropping. The 30-year T-bill was no longer being sold by the government, the benchmark, the CLIR would be used from. And the legislation that Congress had passed temporarily three years earlier, was expiring in 2003. So there was a large argument over which interest rate they would use to make a present value calculation for that stream of payments.

7 There were number of different assumptions going around. We engaged Congress. And we also engaged the bankruptcy court in an extensive hearing there in Alexandria where we opposed the Company's alleged -- their attempt to meet the financial distress test set up in ERISA itself so that the pension benefit could be terminated. And also their allegation at the time that ALPA had in fact already agreed to the termination of the pilot defined benefit plan, which we had not. And we fought that in the bankruptcy court. And that lasted throughout February. And at the end of February, beginning -- I believe it was March 1, the judge issued a bench decision wherein they agreed with us, with ALPA, that we had not agreed to the termination of our plan in the previous concessions, that is the summer 2 Restructuring Agreement, or Letter 84.

3 But he did in fact find that the Company had met the standards of the law, the ERISA law, had met the standards of financial distress. And just that finding was devastating for us. And -- because largely, it meant that the PBGC could have come in and involuntarily terminated our plan whether we liked it or not. And so with that as a backdrop, the MEC resolved that we, the Negotiating Committee, should engage the Company at the bargaining table to see if we could reach an agreement if we were to agree to the termination of our DB plan, agreement to the terms of the follow-on DC plan, which we were also made aware then because it was a follow-on plan, would also have to be approved by the PBGC.

18 So by mid-March of 2003, we were engaged with the Company negotiators over the terms of what would become Letter of Agreement 85 for a defined contribution plan for the pilots, which we would call the individually tailored defined contribution plan. And also agreed to the termination of the defined benefit plan.

Under oath testamony say ALPA did not give away your pension but it was taken from you. So urban legend is wrong.

But the pattern is the same. the says one thing but east pilots don't like it. So you go crying to anyone that will listen to change the rules. But hey never let the facts get in your way of crew rumor.

Look it up. LOA93 transcripts.

 

[luvthe9]

Just because your group and Luvn737 s had no clue about scope doesn t mean a thing. Cleardirect is absolutely the dumbest one with regard to scope. You better listen up. CleaRedirect will never come back after the scope debacle goes down.

Then Clear should read all of this. http://www.operationorange.org/2012/06/a-declaration-of-war/

 

[luvn737s]

DPA is going nowhere. Quit your whining and look to a source with credibility.

 

[cleardirect]

1. 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   OK guys, still think I am crying wolf? This is the most serious attack on your career in your entire life. We are now asking that every pilot publish this on every web board in the system to make all pilots aware of what Hummel and his cohorts are doing. The 9[sup]th[/sup] circuit judge also needs this information – not from any of us but from a seasoned attorney who is very familiar with the RLA. I have received phone calls from Steve Crimi, Paul Dorio and others who wish to remain anonymous for now. The information that I have been talking about is 100% true – you are about to get screwed in a way that makes Midatlantic look like Childs play.
   
   The cover? How’s this sound? The protections will be in place until such time as the pilots are able to bid for each others equipment. A single carrier contract will provide that in short order. Hummel and his cohorts are giving away your scope protection and including the NIC. ‘A contract at any price’ The court’s decision will not matter when both parties agree. His most recent sneaky maneuver is that he doesn’t want YOU to be able to even vote on it. He wants to call it an MOU and ram it down your throat.
   
   Shame on you if you’ve been fooled by him and shame on the coalition for lying to you while jumping in bed with Hummel. The bump in pay that you may or may not see will certainly cost you your career.
   
   The following is reprinted with permission of the author
   
   JimP
   
   
   
   
   
   
   From

So this is from JimP, would that be Jim Portale the same Jim Portale that lead you all down the rat hole following a DFR against ALPA? The DFR that failed. The same JimP that convinced everyone that MDA was really mainline? The same JimP that convinced you east guys that MDA was going to get the Nicolau overturned?

I would say that he has zero credibility to be screaming about anything.

But what a panic you guys are all in now. Talk about spreading FUD. Yes I think you all are crying wolf. Really how serious can any of this be? Going to the web boards. Has anything ever been accomplished on the web boards? If it was such a serious thing why not go to the reps and ask them directly instead the web boards?

No wonder you east pilots are such a mess. You believe the most ludicrous crap without ever even thinking about or asking simple questions.

 

[luvn737s]

Just because your group and Luvn737 s had no clue about scope

Claxitive, you couldn't be more wrong (which I'm sure you'll view as a challenge). Instead of always hunting for new threats you've never successfully defended yourselves against, why not pursue alliances? That is if you ever grow up and people take you seriously.

Are you going for an Orange Lanyard this time? I don't expect the east to ever learn from their mistakes.