July - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[EastCheats]

Because it was WRONG.

Fair enough.

Plus 1, Pi.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Wait to see what is in it?

I never trust anyone who wants a meeting about a document that already exists but refuses to send the document, or even a read ahead package. Meetings like that always end up with people at the table quickly forming coalitions to cut someone else out from the table. If you ain't got the read ahead... Then you are the one they are gonna cut out.

You seem upset that after 4 years of failure a process (might) bring you a vote. You assume, and I cannot confirm, that there is even a finished document for you to view. I hear the Officers get briefed on Monday, and the BPR on Tuesday in open session, hopefully followed by the vote Hummel, and previously McKee (now saying "no" because he thinks the line pilots are stupid and can be manipulated) have promised. That vote takes weeks. I don't get your coalition fears and "cutouts." About 5000 pilots get the info, get briefed, get political messages, and in the end vote. I don't see the problem here. Just so you know, with nearing 3 decades here, my decision to vote yea or nay will only include the concerns of only one group, my family. But that is just me and my one vote, assuming the CLT Reps and the angry PHL guys don't cut me out. Whatever.Greeter

 

[Move2CLT]

Don't pack yet AW, you still have a while.

Got to start looking soon DB.

 

[Move2CLT]

You seem upset that after 4 years of failure a process (might) bring you a vote. You assume, and I cannot confirm, that there is even a finished document for you to view. I hear the Officers get briefed on Monday, and the BPR on Tuesday in open session, hopefully followed by the vote Hummel, and previously McKee (now saying "no" because he thinks the line pilots are stupid and can be manipulated) have promised. That vote takes weeks. I don't get your coalition fears and "cutouts." About 5000 pilots get the info, get briefed, get political messages, and in the end vote. I don't see the problem here. Just so you know, with nearing 3 decades here, my decision to vote yea or nay will only include the concerns of only one group, my family. But that is just me and my one vote, assuming the CLT Reps and the angry PHL guys don't cut me out. Whatever.Greeter

Excellent post.

 

[fatherabraham]

Deleted by me

 

[Phoenix]

You seem upset that after 4 years of failure a process (might) bring you a vote. You assume, and I cannot confirm, that there is even a finished document for you to view. I hear the Officers get briefed on Monday, and the BPR on Tuesday in open session, hopefully followed by the vote Hummel, and previously McKee (now saying "no" because he thinks the line pilots are stupid and can be manipulated) have promised. That vote takes weeks. I don't get your coalition fears and "cutouts." About 5000 pilots get the info, get briefed, get political messages, and in the end vote. I don't see the problem here. Just so you know, with nearing 3 decades here, my decision to vote yea or nay will only include the concerns of only one group, my family. But that is just me and my one vote, assuming the CLT Reps and the angry PHL guys don't cut me out. Whatever.Greeter

Upset? Noting in my post said anything about being upset. My post talked about trust.

You want to talk about upset? Upset is that the company hasn't been willing to negotiate until now and now that they want a merger, they are in rush mode to get us to accept their first offer.


You have Move2Clt's endorsement, and you have APA's example. You pick.

 

[EastCheats]

AWAPPA message:
An important message to all America West pilots - August 15 2012

August 15, 2012

Fellow America West pilots,

As we potentially head into yet another merger, it is worth briefly considering three important lessons we have learned from the past several years. First, we cannot rely upon anybody to protect the America West pilots' interests other than America West pilots. Second, we can and will successfully protect our interests so long as we remain unified and support our legal campaigns. Third, our interests are best advocated when we hire the best professionals to represent us and we follow their advice. In accordance with these lessons, the principals of Leonidas, with the support and leadership of their legal team and the entire AWA pilot group, have spent the past five years successfully defending our seniority rights against a variety of malicious attacks. Additionally, Leonidas will ensure that the legally-arbitrated seniority list remains a permanent fixture at US Airways and any future airlines with whom we may merge.

However, protecting the Nicolau Award is but one small part of a potential merger with American Airlines, and there are many unanswered questions involving complicated and unexplored areas of the Railway Labor Act ("RLA") that we may face. Will we afforded any form of merger representation? What will our merger representation look like? What is the process by which the Nicolau Award will be integrated with AA's seniority list? What is this "three-way" integration that Doug Parker keeps making off-handed remarks about? We need to ensure that we do not allow USAPA, APA, or Doug Parker to answer those questions for us. Rather, we are in a position to ensure that the laws function precisely as they are designed to, and not according to the self-serving whims of other parties. In short, some of the potential perils we face in a merger with American Airlines fall outside the scope of what Leonidas is equipped to protect, and we therefore require the assistance of a credible, reputable attorney with expertise in the Railway Labor Act ("RLA"). As we have learned from experience, no matter how robust any seniority integration process may seem up front, it could always prove to be difficult and tenuous. Therefore, we need the best possible merger attorney representing us, and the sooner the better.

There are already heavy-hitting RLA attorneys representing all other parties to this potential transaction, and we too need reputable RLA attorneys at the table advocating for our interests.

Late last week, AWAPPA LLC retained attorneys Bob Bush and Ira Gottlieb of the law firm Bush, Gottlieb, et al ("Bush Gottlieb") to serve this important role on behalf of all America West pilots. Many of you will recall that Bob Bush served as secondary merger counsel for the America West pilots for a brief period, and also served as lead counsel for the "Susie Arbitration" in 2008. Bob is well-known in the RLA community, and has strong working relationships spanning several decades with the most prominent RLA attorneys in the airline industry. Bob has also edited two leading labor law books published by the American Bar Association, including one book about the Railway Labor Act. Ira Gottlieb is currently the Senior Editor for the most recent Railway Labor Act book recently published by the American Bar Association. Both gentlemen have decades of experience representing airline employees in arbitration proceedings and other litigation forums, and have reputations as formidable, credible advocates in the RLA community. Bush Gottlieb comes highly recommended to us by other prominent RLA attorneys, including our former merger attorney Jeff Freund. In short, I believe it is prudent and responsible for us to establish this legal representation sooner rather than later, and without question, Bob and Ira are the best attorneys for this important job.
​

 

[Pi brat]

But that is how it was sold. Someone in management was going to jail and they were going to get your pension back or at least more money. Now you say they are not asking for any money.


3.5 million spent on the investigation and you guys got nothing.

Why all the secrecy around the magic document? If they have the facts release them. The judge the information just waiting for summary judgement. The summary judgement is about a new trustee or not. If denied you are dead in the water with no answers.

3.5 million wasted.

Clear, were you there for any of the sales pitches? I was and no where do I remember being told that anyone would go to jail or that we were guaranteed to get anything. What I was told was that something did not smell right and that this was the last chance to do anything and even so nothing may come of it.

I said they are not asking for money from the current US Airways management, at least not the top managers. Those from AWA had nothing to do with our pensions and Parker is correct that they acquired( yeah, I said it because that's what he said. Merger, reverse acquisition-it doesn't matter. AWA didn't have the money to buy anything and a lot of outside people put a lot of money in the combination, to the benefit of all of us) a company without that obligation.

The pilots that decided to fund the PIC want to know what really happened. How did the fund lose so much so fast? Why didn't the managers? Why wasn't it managed as the guidelines said it would be? Why did the PBGC just take the money US Airways SAID they were due without doing a proper audit?

I guess when the final report comes out we will see if we get any answers. I don't know why they are doing what they are doing, I just have to wait and see. I doubted when we approved the committee that we would see any additional money, but maybe some answers and some closure to one of the most divisive issues that we have faced. One that was a big factor in the election of USAPA and whose termination by our MEC leads to a lot of the mistrust you see in the posts above.

Again, why do you care? We paid for it, you didn't. You paid millions to fight DOH but still don't get to use the Nic. I don't care. I feel that it was your choice to fight the way you did and that I was an AWA pilot I probably would have done the same. Have you finally run out of other things to argue about?

And on the the 3 way deal. I never said I thought it would go that way. When I heard Parker say it, I thought "Oh boy, some heads are swimming out west!" My post was a bit of flame bait and the usual suspects rose to it. Seems like from AWAAP's letter above that some are more concerned than you let on. BTW, the F/A session is the one I was thinking about. Parker went into a little more detail. I went back to listen again and it's gone. When they put it back up, listen to it.

 

[Pi brat]

My post talked about trust.

Phoenix there is no trust in this pilot group except among certain factions. It's the same old B.S. that we have been dealing with for years. I do not trust McKee. I believe he has the pilots interest in mind, but he has been wrong so many times about so much that I have no confidence in what he says anymore.

All 5,000 of us cannot negotiate a MOU. We have to let the NAC do it and see what happens. If it then goes to the BPR, then the pilots for a vote then I don't see the problem.

 

[Pi brat]

As far as the pension investigation guy....Robert is it???...Parker should have looked that guy in the face and said...so, you are a usapa supporter and committee member???? Don't come to me with fairy tales and other righteous BS you effin scab.

Then we would all know Parker is an honest guy.

Save it nic. You posts have become more desperate sounding. I now put them in the same league as uhaul, clear, OTTER, res jude etc.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Phoenix there is no trust in this pilot group except among certain factions. It's the same old B.S. that we have been dealing with for years. I do not trust McKee. I believe he has the pilots interest in mind, but he has been wrong so many times about so much that I have no confidence in what he says anymore.

All 5,000 of us cannot negotiate a MOU. We have to let the NAC do it and see what happens. If it then goes to the BPR, then the pilots for a vote then I don't see the problem.

I see a roll call vote comig. The McKee faction controls a roll call. They also do not want the MOU to go to the membership. Would not surprise me if we don't get to vote.

 

[cleardirect]

I see a roll call vote comig. The McKee faction controls a roll call. They also do not want the MOU to go to the membership. Would not surprise me if we don't get to vote.

So much for the one pilot one vote usapa talks about. So much for doing things different than ALPA you east pilots talked about. So much for improving ALL us airways pilots unions are supposed to do.

Reading the CLT updates McKee can't stand being in the minority. He whines about APA and the make up of the BPR now. 6-5 when he wins is the will of the majority. 6-5 when he loses is political manipulation and needs to be fixed.

Just another entitled Cleary clone.

 

[nic4us]

Save it nic. You posts have become more desperate sounding. I now put them in the same league as uhaul, clear, OTTER, res jude etc.

If this Robert guy is your friend, it would not hurt to inform him that to anyone outside the usapa circle of reneging malcontents he looks like a hypocritical idiot. When he lectures the CEO on matters of principles and makes veiled threats of releasing some "looks very bad" info to the ENJOINED pilot group to effect their morale, he looks like not only a hypocrite but an idiot as well.

Also, I suspect I know the identity of Move2 (and it is not who you think) and OTTER, I have no idea who Res is, but I do know the identity of Cleardirect, and if you think comparing me to Clear is an insult, you are very mistaken.

 

[Piedmont1984]

So much for the one pilot one vote usapa talks about. So much for doing things different than ALPA you east pilots talked about. So much for improving ALL us airways pilots unions are supposed to do.

Reading the CLT updates McKee can't stand being in the minority. He whines about APA and the make up of the BPR now. 6-5 when he wins is the will of the majority. 6-5 when he loses is political manipulation and needs to be fixed.

Just another entitled Cleary clone.

I believe the roll call option is required by law. Although if memory serves, the founders campaigned that they would refrain from using it. Which is one reason I voted for USAPA in the first place.

 

[nic4us]

I see a roll call vote comig. The McKee faction controls a roll call. They also do not want the MOU to go to the membership. Would not surprise me if we don't get to vote.

If you don't like the results of an election...change the rules and redo the election...

If you don't like the results of arbitration.....change the rules and renege....

If you don't like the possibility of a grievance that would not favor your scab agenda of stealing jobs....don't allow the grievance to be filed.

etc...etc...etc...etc...


time to put an end to usapa.....