June - US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Ames]

So sad, you must feel all alone. All of your Westoff buddies are even turning against you. Ames isnt smart enough to know you have been on your knees from day one.

Ames has the big picture, and smart enough to know you will be on your knees soon pleading with APA for morsels.

 

[Ames]

That was prety cool. LOL. Actually, she sold out the East as well but you like playing the victim to much to see it. Now go stomp your feet and piss your pants clown.

Weak, very weak. Keep trying, maybe you will say something worthwhile, although I am not counting on it.

 

[Ames]

Why do you never mention the other part that changes everything? "Certainly WOULD have"...without the merger. "Had no career expectations"...without the merger. You talk like US had the world by the tail, would have emerged from bankruptcy as a stand-alone carrier and been profitable. BUT, in a fit of altruism Lakefield stooped to merging with HP just to keep HP from going under. The merger changed everything for everyone on both sides - east went from sure liquidation with the only realistic expectation being to be in the unemployment line. West went from growth to shrinkage as east got the benefits of the merger.



So you want the expectations you DIDN'T have before the merger was announced but complain about the west wanting something from the merger also. Sorta one sided, wouldn't you say? Oh, that's right - "I get what I want while the west doesn't get anything" is the east mantra....

The merger created a chance for a win-win but that isn't good enough for the entitled east - they want all the gains and for the west to suffer all the loses...

Jim

Jim has the big picture. I believe Traderjake has it, too. The other 3000+ easties don't and that supports my statement that most eastholes are cut from the same cloth.

 

[Pi brat]

Why do you never mention the other part that changes everything? "Certainly WOULD have"...without the merger. "Had no career expectations"...without the merger. You talk like US had the world by the tail, would have emerged from bankruptcy as a stand-alone carrier and been profitable. BUT, in a fit of altruism Lakefield stooped to merging with HP just to keep HP from going under. The merger changed everything for everyone on both sides - east went from sure liquidation with the only realistic expectation being to be in the unemployment line. West went from growth to shrinkage as east got the benefits of the merger.



So you want the expectations you DIDN'T have before the merger was announced but complain about the west wanting something from the merger also. Sorta one sided, wouldn't you say? Oh, that's right - "I get what I want while the west doesn't get anything" is the east mantra....

The merger created a chance for a win-win but that isn't good enough for the entitled east - they want all the gains and for the west to suffer all the loses...

Jim

Gee, I was thinking a bear got you up there. Why don't you go give them another shot.

You are wrong, again. I have said just that. The merger changed things for all of us but some think it didnt or shouldn't have.

 

[Pi brat]

Duplicate

 

[Pi brat]

Jim has the big picture. I believe Traderjake has it, too. The other 3000+ easties don't and that supports my statement that most eastholes are cut from the same cloth.

You like Jim because he is just like you, a ja, and agrees you. I say he has his biased little picture.

 

[Pi brat]

Actually, they made a good career move at the time they made their decision. How would they know that the east would scab the job they just left the east to obtain?

Also, I have no idea what you are talking about when you say Nic gave the West positions they never had expectations of? do you mean widebodies...and are you talking about the doubling in size of the 330 fleet that east has stolen from the West, or are you refereing to the launch customer status for the 350 that the merger brought that the east would also like to steal?

No they didn't. Even if we had taken the Nic the day it came out, the guys I'm talking about are way more junior than if they had stayed on the east.

The merger changed things for us all. Yes, he put westies in a position to immediately go to widebodies they certainly would not have had by 2007, but kept the furloughed at their 2005 positions. I don't think he shared things evenly, and I agree that the delay in SLI had kept things from bring even but it is not theft because of the TA you guys are clinging to for the Nic. Yes or no. Separate ops until a joint contract?

The scab theft crap just takes away yout credibility.

 

[Metroyet]

Just because your theft hasn't been successful doesn't mean the monikers aren't credible. If the West hadn't stopped you in your tracks, you would have giddily stolen every single one of their upgrades and swapped your 1879 FURLOUGHEES for every single ACTIVE west pilot.

Luckily USTUPID can't get out of their own way. Looking fwd to the day APA cuts USCABAS throat. It's coming soon to a crew base near you.

 

[Keroseneuser]

and swapped your 1879 FURLOUGHEES for every single ACTIVE west pilot.

Only about 500 of the 1879 came back. But don't let facts muddy the hate waters.

 

[Pi brat]

Just because your theft hasn't been successful doesn't mean the monikers aren't credible. If the West hadn't stopped you in your tracks, you would have giddily stolen every single one of their upgrades and swapped your 1879 FURLOUGHEES for every single ACTIVE west pilot.

Luckily USTUPID can't get out of their own way. Looking fwd to the day APA cuts USCABAS throat. It's coming soon to a crew base near you.

Tell me oh wise one. How will the APA slit my throat while leaving the west untouched?

 

[Keroseneuser]

Looking fwd to the day APA cuts USCABAS throat. It's coming soon to a crew base near you.

I did have a conversation with an old friend at AA. He has been attending all the APA events. Time will tell, but I don't think you are going to like APA's view on the NIC.

 

[Pi brat]

Only about 500 of the 1879 came back. But don't let facts muddy the hate waters.

Didn't you know that if it repeated on the AWAPPA board at least twice it IS a fact?

 

[cleardirect]

Tell me oh wise one. How will the APA slit my throat while leaving the west untouched?

It is kind of like going from mexican jail to an American prison. The west has been treated so poorly and abused so badly by usapa and the east that being hit by the APA is going to put the west in a much better position than where we are today.

You guys are going to cry about how unfair life is under apa. Boys it ain't nothing compared to what usapa did to the west.

Do you think the apa would file a RICO suit against an east pilot? How about spend hundreds of thoudsand on worthless law suits without telling the board? How many section 29 letters do you think the apa is going to send out? Do you think the apa would drop a grievance and not even fight it if it was going to cost the east $2.5 million out of your pockets? How about the ACARS grievance that has never been persued. The one that benefitted the east and harmed the west. The apa president going to call east pilots traitors and file false charges against certains members while demanding their jobs?

No the apa will be a vacation compared to usapa. Who BTW has the ability to get a new contract unlike usapa.

 

[Claxon]

Cry Me a river. You got what you deserved. Especially when you kept the pay disparate.
Tell us more about your Mexican prison experience.

 

[Keroseneuser]

Only about 500 of the 1879 came back. But don't let facts muddy the hate waters.

Bad form to quote one's self, but in the interest of providing factual information.....

Only a total of 633 of the 1879 east furloughed returned to the airline. Top guy furloughed is number 2557 bottom guy furloughed is number 3190 current sen list. Rest of east list below that was either MDA(CEL list) or hired since the 2005 merger and was never included in the 1879 figure.

Also of the 633 that came back, 307 of them were hired in 1990 or before. 326 were hired from Nov 1998 to March 2000. Additionally no original pre merger east pilot has less than about 9 years LOS for the company at present. That is the same or more as the west pilots hired in 2004-05. Would have to dig through old sen lists to see but I don't think any pilot hired in 1987 or before was ever furloughed, and I think only a very few of the 1988 guys ever sat furlough. The 89-90 guys did see furlough in the mid 90's but were all back by oct 1998 (and refurloughed in 2002 to late 06). i do not have exact figures for how many from that group though.

I have a feeling from talking to west guys and hearing what they were told about various things that AOL or other entity was happy to let or further any misinformation that was out there to further their cause or funding.