Luv Into Phl

[ITRADE]

I'm wondering if the airport manager is going to be so happy when US folds, leaving three terminals empty....Including that nice, shiny, new international A-west terminal.

 

[KCFlyer]

Art - Southwest is geared primarily for the business passenger. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but with half hourly flights between Dallas and Houston or LA and Oakland, or hourly flights between Kansas City and Chicago - just how many "once a year" travellers do you believe Southwest is catering to? I understand your loyalty to USAirways - it's commendable. But I believe you relayed a story about some atrocious routing from SEA to ISP on US when SWA could have got you there on a one stop with a change of planes. Do you really think most business travellers are willing to do that? Your signature says "it's the fares stupid", yet Southwest has been the leader in offering reasonable fares with few restrictions for years - and yet they are the enemy? If anything, the effect of SWA being there will be a huge benefit to you - the fares will have to compete or US will have to pull back.

 

[Twicebaked]

If we are to survive in the near future when need to management to fight Southwest and not run from them. I am afaid that Uncle Dave is not capable of running an airline. He will just try to shrink Philly to profitability when Southwest takes our revenue. Dr. Bronner WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FUNERAL FLOWERS.
Get Dave out!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Art at ISP]

ART: How fast would the fares drop and how low could it go by may if swa does come for sure? is it possible that US could get say dulles as a hub and help their code share partner UAL out and let UAL buy US out in a couple of years if they run from PHL after SWA invades?

Robbed,

I don't think US is going to run from PHL but I could be wrong. US has tons of money invested in PHL--the new terminal A, Terminal F. In my opinion they should have never built up there because of the infrastructure (runways, terminal configuration, etc.) but they did. IAD is an operationally better field but the problem there is those stupid people movers.

I don't think US should hide and run from SW any more. Nor do I think they should match their fares. Offer VALUE for a small premium. Remember I said before--an executive told me once that if they could raise the bottom of the fare structure by $20, they could lower the top by $300. SO DO IT ALREADY.

If you offer a superior product, you can command a premium, but not a ten fold premium. This might present a unique marketing opportunity.

US has the best employees in the industry--now's the time to spotlight them.

Who knows what will happen, but change is definitely upon us.

My best to all my friends at US....

 

[wwiiairliner]

LUV is going into PHL with 40 flight a day...
It's over for USAir and Siegel. The guy had an opportunity and completely missed it. It's a matter of time before Rome falls...

 

[mrman]

These idiots are the same people

These idiots are the same people who..?

Maybe one reason US is in trouble is that it has employees with attitudes that call their customers "Idiots".

G

 

[Phantom Fixer]

These idiots are the same people who..?

Maybe one reason US is in trouble is that it has employees with attitudes that call their customers "Idiots".

G

Hey Einstein,

Art at ISP is a customer....He pays , so he can say what's on his mind...maybe his comments just happened to strike a nerve Huh?

 

[JS]

If you offer a superior product, you can command a premium, but not a ten fold premium. This might present a unique marketing opportunity.

That's a big "IF". The US mainline product is marginally better than Southwest (if you like seat assignments). If you don't care about seat assignments, I would say it's worse.

If US' planes still have galleys, now is the chance to provide meals on board for free, just like in the good old days, at Southwest fares plus $20 or so.

The alternative is matching Southwest's fares and leaving everything else alone. That's probably what they'll do, and that is guaranteed to fail the airline given enough time to bleed. US' costs aren't just high, they are entrenched and unchangeable outside of bankruptcy court.

I'm going to try to move as much business to US from DL as I can (say, about 1/4 to 1/3), because US is not going to be around much longer!

 

[KCFlyer]

These idiots are the same people who..?

Maybe one reason US is in trouble is that it has employees with attitudes that call their customers "Idiots".

G

Hey Einstein,

Art at ISP is a customer....He pays , so he can say what's on his mind...maybe his comments just happened to strike a nerve Huh?

Um - it wasn't Art that he quoted...it was a furloughed USAirways FO.

 

[Flying Titan]

Maybe this will mark a turning point. The bunch in CCY hasn't shown much of a spine over the last few years. Of course it's hard to stand and fight when you're the financial equivalent of a hemophiliac. Now, US is backed into a corner and will have to fight for its life. US also seems to be in a bit better position - still bleeding, but much more slowly. Perhaps they can stand up and fight back. PHL is not PIT...so they can't just walk away. PHL is the most important market for US. Lots of O&D, international gateway, etc. If US can't make a stand there, it can't make a stand anywhere. Expect them to pour a lot of resources into the PHL market - FF promotions, some new marketing, some new flights (don't forget the new EMB 70-seaters are due in February). Of course, it's hard to fight a major war on several fronts (just ask Bush and Rumsfeld) - so this probably doesn't bode well for US operations at PIT, where they may just decide to walk away next year, especially if they are really trying to work out a deal for a new hub at IAD.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

How many flights a day does WN have out of DTW? Is WN a problem of NW at DTW?

I wonder what's going on with WN and the city of PHL? What kind of incentives is PHL giving to WN? If they are, they have to allow U to compete for those incentives.

I am surprised, but I unsure of the likely effects.

 

[Art at ISP]

Art - Southwest is geared primarily for the business passenger. Sorry to burst your bubble here, but with half hourly flights between Dallas and Houston or LA and Oakland, or hourly flights between Kansas City and Chicago - just how many "once a year" travellers do you believe Southwest is catering to? I understand your loyalty to USAirways - it's commendable. But I believe you relayed a story about some atrocious routing from SEA to ISP on US when SWA could have got you there on a one stop with a change of planes. Do you really think most business travellers are willing to do that? Your signature says "it's the fares stupid", yet Southwest has been the leader in offering reasonable fares with few restrictions for years - and yet they are the enemy? If anything, the effect of SWA being there will be a huge benefit to you - the fares will have to compete or US will have to pull back.

KC,

Your illustrations of SW being a business oriented carrier don't fly here in the east. Also, the routing SEA-ISP or whatever was fine--I'd rather connect than sit on a plane through 3 stops.

SW in the east caters primarily to Joe and Jill Priceline--and that's fine. As long as the fares are fair and US continues to offer service where I need to go, I see no reason to change. I know you're a SW fan, so I am a US fan--I think we need to agree to disagree.

Thanks anyway and good luck.

 

[ClueByFour]

The flying public, be it your vacationing retirees or your weekly business travelers, care ONLY about fares. These idiots are the same people who will stop on their way to the airport for toothpaste at Wal-Mart, taking 1/2 hour of their time while by-passing the struggling independent drug store anchored at their town's corner for 30 years for a "rollback" savings of 13 cents. And while goofball employees at these LCC's are willing to work for 1/2 the wages and a fraction of the benefits historically available at REAL airlines, the rest of us are simply doomed.

I'm thinking that at US, the pilot and mech groups would rather have the LUV contract, because I believe now, in most cases, the LUV employees make more. The reason for that is that Southwest has come out and said that they pay their employee groups what they can actually afford to pay them. What a novel concept.

As for the consumer, if you could take a $300 LUV fare PHL-BNA on a 737 or a $500 US fare on an RJ or prop, which are you choosing?

The problem is that the major's value proposition has eroded (service cutbacks, customer unfriendly policies, BBB, whatever) to the point where any premium paid no longer buys one anything. Only a fool drives 50 miles out of the way for a $0.13 difference on a tube of toothpaste, and only a fool pays a %20-%70 premium on a fare costing hundreds of bucks in order to subsidize somebody who wishes for re-regulation.

 

[ClueByFour]

this probably doesn't bode well for US operations at PIT, where they may just decide to walk away next year, especially if they are really trying to work out a deal for a new hub at IAD.

Let me understand this:

LUV comes into PHL. So US proceeds to walk away from it's other fortress hub, and take everything to IAD.

You assume that the DOJ would let it happen for antitrust reasons. Problem.

You assume that people are willing to drive out to IAD for domestic O&D. In case you did not notice, that particular part of the DC area is driven by the tech economy which just got hammered down (a bit). Problem.

US then has IAD, right between PHL and BWI (two LUV cities). Major problem.

While such a corporate transaction with UA might be either unique and/or interesting, it won't be a PCT (profitable corporate transaction).

Hell, maybe the state lowers costs and LUV goes for bookends with PHL/PIT.

 

[mrplanes]

IF we had leadership here we could kick LUV's but. Leadership would communicate, motivate and show us how we could do it. Problem is that our lack of leadership in the past has poisoned our future. Whatever Siegel says will be seen as not the truth, not motivating, and not a plan. There are ways to compete with these guys. Mullin is doing it. So could we but our boss hasn't the intelligence, leadership or savy to fight. He would prefer to run and hide. Southwest has seen it from us at BWI and they took advantage. Now they feel they can knock us out at PHL. And with Siegel at the helm they might be right.

The only way to compete is head on. And we can't do that with Siegel at the helm. He doesn't know how. The numbers don't match up. The formulas are all wrong. The graphs don't allow us to do it. Wonder how Song does it? They have a leader. They know the only way to win is to fight. Unless Bronner finds someone to run this airline we are doomed.

mr