Mda To Republic

Wrong.......

1) "Per the ALPA Restructuring Agreement, Attachment B, page 7 titled “MDA Job Opportunitiesâ€
----while speaking of intent, that was also INTENDED for MDA to be a separate carrier completely.

2)"Thus, the only way a person can be a MDA pilot is to be furloughed from mainline, then hired to MDA from a wholly owned carrier via the CEL list, or hired off the street. MDA is not open to active US Airways pilot"
----the same can be said for rights to recall, only furloughed pilots and those who "flow through" from the CEL

3) "Administratively MDA, not US Airways, handles payroll issues, sick, vacation, LTD, etc. internally with their own structure, not that of US Airways"
---not completely correct, retirement is not handled by MDA, you retire from MDA you retire from mainline. Noone is allowed to retire early from mainline and continue to fly for MDA. Also, I have paychecks from "US Airways ,2345 Crystal Dr., Arlington, VA 22227, and am very much MDA.

4) "Contractually, the MDA pilots have a distinct separate working agreement. The only CBA exceptions are for Ssections 1, 19, 20, 25 and the accelerated arbitration side letter"
-----MDA pilots have NO working agreement as of yet as the AAA Mainline LEC/MEC who we pay dues to have not managed anything in writing yet. Much like Metrojet, we are a side letter with a fence and nothing more.

5) "Item two above applies for bidding purposes"
----Bidding/seniority is set strictly by the APL at MDA and not date of hire at MDA.

6) "Item two above covers pilot and aircraft segregation in regard to scope"
----its called a fence and you will see plenty of whining from pilots like yourself who want to keep the AWA guys off of the precious AAA heavy iron.

7) "There is separate mainline and MDA pilot scheduling computer segregation"
------we share people, not systems. MDA training scheduling is done by the 330 people.

8) "MDA pilot paychecks come from MidAtlantic Airlines, 1000 Commerce Dr., Pittsburgh, PA 15275. MDA paychecks do not say that they come from “US Airwaysâ€. Active US Airways employees receive paychecks from US Airways ,2345 Crystal Dr., Arlington, VA 22227"
----ahhh but they origionally did come from Arlington when it was determined that MDA would not be separate.
-----at the very same instant we did start getting bills from ALPA 535 Herndon parkway, Herndon, VA 20172. Each of those bills and assessments state as does my current status "Active AAA" and in my case "In good standing" :) Also when we called to ask about why we were paying furloughed medical assessments, we were told we had to pay them in order to remain in good standing and were charged said medical because we were "recalled for purposes of dues and assessments".


9)"MDA has distinct and separate management and administrative structure from that of US Airways"
----Where have you been Captain Informed? The Chief Pilot is now the same as a Base Chief Pilot and does answer to the same chain as such. The PHL and DCA based MDA pilots are under the purview of the mainline base chief pilots as well. We are managed by the same VP of training, hold Check Airman Meetings along with all other fleets, attend the same BCAT/CCAT meetings as any mainline Check Airman, and all MDA pilots attend NAST with mainline people. MDA flight attendants are required to be familiar and qualified on all of USAirways fleet and the mainline F/A's are required to be familiar with the 170 as well.

10) "However, for all those reasons that MDA is not US Airways it does have some cross functions such as pilot training records"
----EVERY Form used by MDA says "USAirways" on the bottom. Including the ADE Authorization cards which hang with ID badges and CKAM badges which state only "USAirways"

11)"MDA aircraft have “US Airways Express†painted on the side, but also have a trade mark by the door that says “MidAtlantic Airlines Operated by US Airways"
----Which is not the same as saying a "wholly owned division" or owned by "usairways group inc." , it clearly says operated by usairways which is JUST LIKE METROJET, and JUST LIKE METROJET, EVERY LAST MDA PILOT WEARS USAIRWAYS BRASS....... Nothing on any MDA pilot says "express". Metrojet had red bag tags, did that make them lesser usairways pilots?

12) "The MDA aircraft call sign is “US Air†just like the mainline, but their employee ID’s say “US Airways - MidAtlantic Airwaysâ€. The check airman ID says MidAtlantic Airways - US Airwaysâ€
---Brand Recognition, carryover from when MDA was supposed to be separate. Nowhere does it say the name of another airline, only a brand that never happend. I have the ability to reserve a jumpseat and if I beat you to the reservation, bump you off. How many non-active pilots can do that?

13) If MDA is a "Division" find an official reference to it? How much taxes were paid by MDA Inc? What Certificate does MDA Inc use? The registration on every last Embraer 170 is registered to "USAirways Airlines", not group and not MDA Inc. Our payroll is contracted out "outsourced" much like your maintenance and aircraft cleaning. Does that make you less an Active USAirways AAA member?

Then there are many other issues. ALPA has in fact charged dues to each MDA pilot from the first day of class. No probation period, no choice, you pay or else. Same goes for assessments, you pay or else. Furloughed Medical was not made available to MDA pilots because they weren't furloughed anymore, FACT. MDA pilots have voted on every AAA ballot since 9/2003 and continue to do so. MDA pilots hold MEC/LEC positions (though you and yours are trying very hard to get rid of them). MDA pilots were told directly and in person by the MEC Chairman that we were just like Metrojet, that we were active AAA and would be represented as such. In the same breath, the same man explained that MDA would be better off this way and not with even our own council. He encouraged and even urged MDA pilots to run for and hold as many LEC/MEC offices and committe chairs as possible...

I'm just an average farm boy with a two year degree in beer whiz from a school of which you have never heard, and I make you sound poorly.... Imagine what a skilled NY attorney could do.


SH
 
320,
that is not correct, I am sure you are aware that the people at the Division do not agree with this conclusion nor do some of the MEC agree with this conclusion. It seems management wants it both ways. they want it to be MDA for the purposes of seperating themselves from anything with the word Express on it, and for the ability to pit the pilot groups against one another. But yet we are one big happy family for the certificate and ALPA dues. Cant have it both ways! Put aside all the clutter that the brain trust in CCY have thrown in and look at the bottom line. Who ownes and operates these aircraft?
 
Rico said:
Continuing that though, I would think it foolish on the company's part to just "let MDA go"

IF the reason MDA was to be sold was a short term gain at long term expense, then would it be stupid not to revisit that decision...

I am not talking about the current fleet. The way the current deal was structured means that that sale was going to happen no matter what, but...

WTF would the new management want to allow the cheapest 70, and more importantly 90 seat operation to evaporate just because U was desparate a few months back...?

I mean really, why have someone else do all your 90 seat flying for you if you can do it 8% cheaper than they can...? Right now, as is, it is a turn-key operation, with most of the run-up costs already spent and people trained. The E-190 will begin deliveries in August to your competition. Instead of losing the lead you gained with MDA so far, you could extend it into the larger 90 seaters with their lower CASM's.

And costs aside, I will tell you one big reason for MidAtlantic's popularity with the passengers, yes they love the plane, but... MidAtlantic does not staff itself with Mesa flight attendants...

Instead they are Mainline F/A's delivering a far better product AT THE SAME OR CHEAPER RATES. Ditto for the flight crews and Mechanics...

So you are stuck having to sell the E-170's, WTF would you make the even bigger long term mistake of losing the huge concessionary victory for the company that MDA was, and could still be...?

Think about it, With jetBlue flying their own E-190's all over the East Coast, do you really want to sign away your only real competitive response...? (Please do not think a CRJ-900 is adequate repsonse to JB's E-190's, please)

Oh, and remember another thing, scope allows Republic to only fly 25 E-190's, that's it. If the Aircraft is as good as expected, do you want to be limted to that amount because you no longer have MDA...?

And one last item, out of bankruptcy, MDA pilots can be displaced, meaning that IF the company is smart enough to retain MDA is some fashion from here on, especially with 90 seater rates that are closer to what reserve F/O's at the rest of mainline make... That might really ease the labor issues involved with getting this merger approved, and the new company "right-sized" (with US and HP).

It is up to you Mr. Parker...

If you want to make this operation the best LCC, then do not let jetBlue be the only LCC with the cheap 90 seat flying while tying yourself to more costly affiliates...
[post="276239"][/post]​

Rico,

You are absolutely correct, and I sincerely hope Parker rethinks the situation and keeps Embraer flying in-house. These aircraft are far superior to the CRJs in most all respects and yes, the cusomers love them because they truly don't have an "express" feel. Our customers don't want to go out onto the tarmac and they don't want to have to duck in the aisle. They also want full-sized bins. My thought is that they should be dual class configurations (since a big part of the new business plan will be to have a dual-class LCC), let MAA continue flying them, and have the combined PSA/Piedmont/Alleghany and Air Wisconsin to the CRJ, single class flying. Take "Express" off the MAA planes because it's not express staff flying them, and have a MAA base in either PHX or LAS, and possibly a SFO/SJC/OAK combined MAA base to create a trilateral focus region in the bay area with a "cost-effective" hourly California shuttle (perhaps OAK to LAX in the 190's and OAK to SAN in the 170s, INCREASING TO 319s and 320s during peak hours).
 
Hm, I understand what you are trying to say A320, but all of the differences that you listed were not done so much as to make MidAtlantic separate, rather to allow for a lower overhead vis-a-vi cheaper hotels, benefits, and so on.

Most of the examples you gave have already been watered down, as over time the various administrative functions of MDA have fallen to "mainline" employees to handle. For example, Crew Training Scheduling for the E-170's is now handled by "Mainline" employees. or the dental plan, guess what... yep Mainline.

I could go on forever, as there are far more things proving MDA IS mainline rather than apart. But we both know the truth,

The truth is that MDA is nothing more than a reincarnation of the B-Scale.

The only real difference this time is that other work groups have also participated this time in parellel concessions for this operation. And someone painted "express" on the side of the aircraft.

Other than that, it is hard to call the E-170 operation anymore separate from the Mainline than other marketing efforts, such as the "florida shuttle" or "Metrojet", both operated by USAir/Airways

Is it a recall...? Well, I would be hard pressed to call a person the Union collects dues from, places assesments upon, allows to vote, and even allow to hold a committee position, or even run for elected Office in the AAA MEC "furloughed"... That goes against ALPA National policy.

Does that mean they are "full on" mainline. No. It is a negotiated situation that allows AAA members to return to active service at reduced pay, reduced benifits, and lowered work rules with no longevity credit. MDA is a CHOICE, not a separate company. You chose to return to work under the conditions LOA negotiated and found only inside the AAA CBA.

It Is ALPA that agreed to place a fence on MDA, allowing only those unable to hold an active position on a Airbus or Boeing to be able to bid into MDA. And ALPA agreed to even further restrict it during bankruptcy to allow the company to save costs. Otherwise all of the PIT E-170 positions would have been filled by those bidding down to remain in base rather than in position. Again, the "fence" was (agreed to and) made to cut (training) costs, not separate the company...

I have said it before, the INTENT and the rhetoric might have been to make MDA separate, but the actions of both the company and ALPA have gone the other direction.

NO one at MDA is looking to jump ahead of anyone or cut a special deal for themselves, rather they just want our NUMBERS counted in tha tally of ACTIVE US Airways pilots so that a better deal for all of us can be obtained.

While I probably will be (actually) Furloughed from the E-170 in the near future, my position can and should be considered when any negotiation is made to decide the ratio of blending US and HP pilots. Adding our 300+ into the U count IMO only means a better outcome ethier negotiated or arbitrated.

But it comes down to this, You can call MDA a Division or I can call it a B-Scale all day, that is irrelavent. What matters is that AAA ALPA not dig itself into a deeper pit with conflicing actions and statements. They just cannot have their cake and eat it too.

Treat us, and COUNT US the same as any other active dues paying AAA member, that's all we ask.
 
Rico,

You are absolutely correct, and I sincerely hope Parker rethinks the situation and keeps Embraer flying in-house. These aircraft are far superior to the CRJs in most all respects and yes, the cusomers love them because they truly don't have an "express" feel. Our customers don't want to go out onto the tarmac and they don't want to have to duck in the aisle. They also want full-sized bins. My thought is that they should be dual class configurations (since a big part of the new business plan will be to have a dual-class LCC), let MAA continue flying them, and have the combined PSA/Piedmont/Alleghany and Air Wisconsin to the CRJ, single class flying. Take "Express" off the MAA planes because it's not express staff flying them, and have a MAA base in either PHX or LAS, and possibly a SFO/SJC/OAK combined MAA base to create a trilateral focus region in the bay area with a "cost-effective" hourly California shuttle (perhaps OAK to LAX in the 190's and OAK to SAN in the 170s, INCREASING TO 319s and 320s during peak hours).
Thanks...

Yeah, I am hopeful that in the long run, the jobs that the E-170 provides today cn be found in the E-190 tomm...

i would rathr that be A319 or B737 flying, but I am a realist and know that the E-190 is coming, and if it is as successful as I think it will be, it will be a shame if US Airways is stuck paying more for others to fly them rather than doing it themselves.

The only thing that gives me hope is new management usually is not tied to sticking with the choices of the past, and usually when something is 8% or even cheaper, Airlines tend to be attracted to such.

Financing aircraft...? yeah, that's a hurdle, but they found the money for the E-170's right prior to, and in BK. And they will have the funds from the sale of the E-170's. hey, if they can pull 55Million out of thin air to pay for bonuses, then it is not too far fetched that they could do the same to acquire airframes to continue a revenue positive operation...

Just my .02 cents
 
Dear PBGC..I am a 50 year old MDA Pilot. USA320Pilot says I am not a USAirways pilot. I would like to start collecting my benefits for age 50 being that I no longer work for USAirways. Reply: Dear 50 Year old MDA pilot..You are USAirways..benefit denied. (fact). Dear ALPA, if I am not an active USAirways pilot, why do you take dues from my check? I would like to request a refund. Hypocrisy at its best!




Mod comment: don't disclose identities.
 
320:

You can cite all the examples you wish.....you know and I know that MDA IS USAIRWAYS. Clearly, it was intended to be separate, but the brain trust in CCY decided it couldn't or shouldn't be done. They have also effectively muddied the water so bad that noone knows jack. Which is why I have been so adamant that the MEC and ALPA have created a mess that will not be easy to clean up.....could this be the motive for cutting the MDA guys loose?

ALPA has been hoodwinking these pilots from the getgo....the only reason the MDA pilots are ALPA is because the MEC demanded that they be and then kept telling them that they would be represented just fine by the ALPA reps at Mainline.

Don't even go there with the contract........ALPA, under the expert tuteledge of DW, put the MDA negotiating team on the map....three guys who don't even fly for MDA and then they caved on the AMR Eagle contract to save their own ass.

Your arguement has so many holes in it it should be considered a french drain. It is obvious you and the other MEC clowns who are willing to sacrifice some others to save their own bacon have something to gain from this and are unwilling to go to the mat for your OWN. It is no wonder you will have your ass handed to you during a merger integration.

Keep trying though. It is entertaining.

Boomer
 
I fully understand the issues at hand, but what I listed above are the facts as I understand them. I do not like this any more than anybody else. Replacement Jet or Replacement Job (RJ) outsourcing began when the Delta pilots did not have adequate scope protections and Comair began flying CRJs. Then the problem grew to 70-seat and now 90-seat RJs.

Do I like it? No, of course not, but it’s the reality of the situation.

In regard to the threat of legal action by MDA pilots against ALPA I believe the emotion of the situation is taking over for logic. MDA pilots are threatening a lawsuit against the only body that can help them; thus, it appears it would be in the best interests of the MDA pilots to not upset those that can help. In addition, litigation is very, very expensive and it might not be in the MDA pilot’s best interest to use their finances against ALPA’s extremely well financed resources and experienced attorneys, if a MDA furlough does occur. Moreover, it's likely the MDA pilots would run out of funds before the attorneys even exchanged paperwork, considering today's litigious society.

Thus, it appears the MDA pilots are using the threat of legal action against the only body that can help them, which could “burn the only bridge†available for MDA pilot support. In my opinion, that's not logical or smart.

Let's look at another important issue.

MDA pilots claim that MidAtlantic is nothing more than an internal division of US Airways -- exactly the same way as MetroJet. It appears that is not true and they're distinctly different animals.

Why?

Because MetroJet was not a division of US Airways Group it was a “branding†product only, just like Delta Express, Song, United Express or Ted. Operationally, it was US Airways and the pilot CBA applied to US Airways mainline and MetroJet. It is true that there were contractual modifications for those pilots flying the “brandâ€, but again that is another difference between MDA and MetroJet.

The pilot contractual modifications or exceptions to the entire mainline working agreement applied to all pilots flying the Metrojet “brandâ€. This created flying that was available for bid by all US Airways mainline pilots because it was a "biddable position", which is not the case at MDA.

Mainline pilots are not permitted to bid MDA, they have not recieve, furlough pay of about 6 months, and many mainline pilots would like to bid MDA to improve their quality of life, but they cannot because MDA is not part of the mainline, it's a division of US Airways Group.

As many of you know, I have long been a vocal supporter of making MDA a mainline product and a biddable position, but that did not happen. It should have, but it did not.

Meanwhile, it is abundantly clear that there was no differentiation in MetroJet scope and every employee was a US Airways mainline employee, which is not the case at MDA with scope changes and the flying done only by furloughed mainline employees. Again, there was not a separate and distinct corporate structure, nor were there any separate and distinct employees, like there is at MDA.

However, there are hundreds of separate and distinct dedicated and very good MidAtlantic employees, including pilots and others who do not work or can they work for US Airways mainline because they're furloughed – that is one huge issue and problem. Unfortunately, they work for MidAtlantic Airways which is built around a separate and distinct corporate structure.

Also noteworthy, the pilots flying the EMB-170 aircraft at US Airway's MDA Division are considered active AAA union pilots, but they are not active US Airways mainline pilots because they're furloughed. Yes, I know that they're dues paying members of the AAA chapter of ALPA.

But, here’s the problem. It is my understanding that MDA pilot representation is a function of “class and craft†(which is defined as the scope of people who can be represented by the union) and ALPA national has agreed that class and craft for the AAA chapter includes both active mainline pilots and active MDA division pilots.

I have been told that this is very important point because that “class and craft†does not mean that people are employed by US Airways mainline. “Class and craft†means that a person work somewhere that allows them to be represented by the ALPA AAA Chapter.

Accordingly, MDA pilots are identified as AAA Chapter members by ALPA National per the Constitution and by-laws.

Do I like this? No, of course not, but it's how ALPA National has described the issue per the Association's by-laws.

Regards,

USA320Pilot
 
USA320Pilot said:
In regard to the threat of legal action by MDA pilots against ALPA I believe the emotion of the situation is taking over for logic. MDA pilots are threatening a lawsuit against the only body that can help them; thus, it appears it would be in the best interests of the MDA pilots to not upset those that can help. In addition, litigation is very, very expensive and it might not be in the MDA pilot’s best interest to use their finances against ALPA’s extremely well financed resources and experienced attorneys, if a MDA furlough does occur. Moreover, it's likely the MDA pilots would run out of funds before the attorneys even exchanged paperwork, considering today's litigious society.

Thus, it appears the MDA pilots are using the threat of legal action against the only body that can help them, which could “burn the only bridgeâ€￾ available for MDA pilot support. In my opinion, that's not logical or smart.

Sounds like a perfectly rational legal situation.

ALPA is supposed to represent MDA pilot's best interests. And yet, ALPA is in the process (and has been) of selling MDA pilots down the river.

If ALPA is the MDA pilots 'only' source of help, and in fact will not help them, why should they pay dues? Why should they back down? It seems clear to me that at a minimum, ALPA has a conflict of interests and is favoring one group over the other.
 
Well, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

But the fact is that it that MDA is nothing but a B-Scale, and one that each pilot elected/declined to return to/enter the mainline with and work under. Fine, so be it.

Being B-Scale does not mean you no longer deserve to be counted, or do not deserve the same treatment/status as any other AAA pilot.

This crap about still being "furloughed" is not going to stand up to the light of day. How can a supposedly furloughed pilot run for MEC office afterall...?

It is in the company's interest to squeeze us for every savings they can. I expect that. What I do not expect, nor can accept is my own union holding me at arm's length without a decent explanation or reason.

Afterall, what good reason would the AAA ALPA have for distancing itself from the E-170 pilots? It makes no sense to have fewer numbers in the snapshot, fewer numbers paying for a merger assessment., fewer junior people behind you...
 
If ALPA is our best bet, why are we still waiting after nearly two years for a contract of ANY KIND? Our only documents say only "American Eagle" with no side letters or letters of interpretation, this was achieved for us by the same highly qualified ALPA attorneys you speak of.....

I do not agree with your politics, you, pilot action, and the BOS/CLT FO reps have a misguided view of what MDA status is. Your quoting by the letter of D.S. assessment of the situation is on three boards from three authors......

If this has an ounce of truth, why hasn't the MEC Chair stated anything in writing?

SH -again
 
PS. If we are separate, the court will have to settle a "single carrier" filing before either the merger or sale of EMB-170's can take place.......... Mesa/Freedom and Chataque/Republic have different operating certificates and less commonality than MDA/AAA and both cases were won.
 
Mainline ALPA is MDA.s best bet? What other airline in the history of ALPA has people hired in 1989 flying F/O to people hired in 1999? Yes..Pilots with 15 years service vs other pilots 3 years of service on the same seniority list. What a joke. I have to hand it to them however, ALPA is very good at one thing...taking Dues.
 
As long Mid Atlantic flies under the US Airways certificate every regulatory agency outside the company considers it US Airways.
 
You got it Dog. I hope no one tells the FAA that there are pilots who are not active U employees flying airplanes operated on the U certificate.

Give me a break. MAA pilots are active mainline pilots. Period.