More F/A furloughs

L1011Ret

Veteran
Oct 31, 2002
1,326
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According to well established sources, there will be 750 additional furloughs of STL TWA LLC F/A''s in two batches, April 1 and May 1.
 

bicaal

Member
Sep 4, 2002
43
0
That is correct Bill and now confirmed by APFA. It is said to cut into 1975 seniority. My estimates say 1976/1977, but I could be wrong on the total still on payroll in STL..As of 2/01/03 the f/a cuts went into 1985 seniority.
I talked to a friend in reservations and they are being told 2,000 cuts in res. by May 1.
 

DLFlyer31

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
444
0
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 11:24:40 AM L1011Ret wrote:

According to well established sources, there will be 750 additional furloughs of STL TWA LLC F/A's in two batches, April 1 and May 1.
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[/blockquote]

Out of curiousity, how many FA's total are based in STL?

Wiping out 750 FA's, would seem to indicate a hefty downsizing of STL is coming or a heck of a lot more RJ's...unless there's a lot more FA's at STL than I realize??
 

Guest
That is so sad to hear. I hope this airline comes back stronger and welcomes all of the furloughed Flight Attendants...Pilots..and anyone else with open arms. Today is a sad sad day
 

TWAFA007

Advanced
Sep 2, 2002
133
0
Aloha,

At this rate there wont be any TWA F/As left by the end of the year. There will be more cuts this Fall. 3000 down, 1000 to go. So much for the theory that AA saved TWA F/As jobs. The AA F/As should be thankful for the TWA purchase for its the TWA F/As that are saving their jobs. IMHO.

My heart goes out to all my friends at TWA who will be thrown to the streets by an unjust, "fair & equitable seniority intergration." Just my fuel for the fire. We will have our day in court when a neutral Judge will decide if it was fair.

ALOHA, 007
 

easy victor1

Newbie
Jan 28, 2003
9
0
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 2:14:40 PM TWAFA007 wrote:

Aloha,

At this rate there wont be any TWA F/As left by the end of the year. There will be more cuts this Fall. 3000 down, 1000 to go. So much for the theory that AA saved TWA F/As jobs. The AA F/As should be thankful for the TWA purchase for its the TWA F/As that are saving their jobs. IMHO.

My heart goes out to all my friends at TWA who will be thrown to the streets by an unjust, "fair & equitable seniority intergration." Just my fuel for the fire. We will have our day in court when a neutral Judge will decide if it was fair.

ALOHA, 007
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[/blockquote]


Well it looks like our #1 will be gone. However there is hope and I truly believe that we will prevail in the courts. Our case is not like Reno by any stretch. The master plan
was to get rid of ALL of us. We will see who has the last laugh. Our DFR will be a win and John CowAArd will have alot of explaining to do.

The IAM with its deep pockets can and will bring APFA to its knees.

AA f/a's are scabbing our so called fence and flying our TWA routes. So much for solidarity.
And Johns election will be coming up and I can assure you the 4200+ will not be voting for him or any of the shady board members.

If the AA f/a's were AFA the seniority intergration would had been moot. DOH

F/A's at NW and UA find the APFA to be exactly what they have been known to be. Selfish and uncaring and have no idea how to treat their commrads. I know 10 AA f/a's who I have know for well over 10yrs tell me how screwed we are. Nice?

So, here I am after 18yrs furloughed and more to come for some silver winger. What a disgrace this is for their UNION.[img src='http://www.usaviation.com/idealbb/images/smilies/14.gif']
 

WingNaPrayer

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,742
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EYW
Visit site
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 2:14:40 PM TWAFA007 wrote:

The AA F/As should be thankful for the TWA purchase for its the TWA F/As that are saving their jobs. IMHO.

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[/blockquote]

Not quite. Had AA not been so eagerly greedy and rushed to buy up TWA, they wouldn't be in as much of a financial mess as they currently are, and furloughs would more than likely have been a lot less.

To top it all off, those former TWA folks who are now just seeing the pinks slips, would have been handed them, along with their hats, years earlier.

The TWA folks just can't seem to get it through their heads that TWA is gone, kaput, period. There are no "TWA routes" or "TWA aircraft" anymore, they are all AA routes and AA aircraft, and have been for quite some time. Yet, the TWA folks, especially the F/As want to keep using the "us vs. them" language. There's no happy medium, TWAs commander in chief raped and pilaged that airline to the point of zero profit, then ran with overflowing pockets straight to the bankruptcy judge and offered up the TWA employees as labor sacrifices. He could have cared less what happened to any of you. . . and so it seems none of the former TWA employess cared either.

Lambert is a piece of crap smelly dump of an airport and AA should just pull out, they don't need it. All they wanted was the maintenance facilities and now that those are in jeopardy of closing, it's time to pull the plug on Saint Loo and stop throwing good money after bad decisions.
 

easy victor1

Newbie
Jan 28, 2003
9
0
You can brown nose APFA all you want. The proof in the pudding will be when we win our case. You can be a side line judge all you want. Even if you lose and try to appeal, your union will never be able to post that is REQIRED. Your lame answers will not hold water in a court of law.

Are we worried about working with you when WE win? Absolutly not!! We have maintained our professional dignity through a stike and have had to work with all f/a's. We never make the customer suffer because of our scab VS striker. The TWA f/a's rise above all of the internal problems.

Now that shortly we will have about 1500 left...you should start to worry. Your padding in senioirty order is almost gone and soon it could be you. Just remember Mikey, what goes around comes around. We at TWA never forget.

From a REAL STRIKER: 3 years.....not a few days.
 

TWAnr

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
1,003
0
www.usaviation.com
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 3:57:55 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Even the last time AA furloughed, it was only pilots, and in our contract article 16 provides for a strong protection against layoffs by offering leaves and shared line flying.
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[/blockquote]


How telling: "the last time AA furloughed." For your information, the last time AA furloughed was today in St. Louis; almost four hundred flight attendants are gone as of today. Oh, I forgot, furlough fodder does not count.

The APFA "strong protection against layoffs" is also designed to benefit the nAAtives only. According to Jane Allen's latest hotline, overage leaves and partnership flying will be offered in STL only, and nowhere else. Just what are the chances of 2,000 active flight attendants being able to mitigate against 750 job cuts without participation from the other bases? My guess is nil. Why is the APFA rolling over and playing dead and allowing the company to get around the "strong" furlough protection?

I am too angry to continue to post in a civil manner, so I will just quit.
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
A union who protects is members is not a disgrace. It more than I can say for the IAM. As the IAM continues to lose members, in this industry, I wonder how long they will continue to fund this nonsense.

You live in a fantasy world of TWA routes, and Grand conspiracy theories of APFA using you as furlough protection. At the time of purchase all the indications were for growth and expansion. Making LLCers start with no free occupational seniority credit was a union protecting its members. Like all of us new hires and company transfers as well as though Eagle flight attendants we all start at the bottom.

AFA may have a DOH provision. But remember all the goings on when the UAL/U merger was in the works, These boards and the talk at UAL was How to protect themselves from losing bidding seniority, when the U people were moved in. Want more proof that's each union is trying to protect their own members look at all the pilot groups. Working deals to put mainline pilots in RJ's and pushing the other guys to the street. That is a clear case of one group fully knowing the outcome of its actions. APFA was in this case simply protecting bidding seniority from a new group of 4000 plus very, very senior people. With no idea furloughs or anything like 9/11 could or would happen. Even the last time AA furloughed, it was only pilots, and in our contract article 16 provides for a strong protection against layoffs by offering leaves and shared line flying.
 

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 4:39:09 PM easy victor1 wrote:

You can brown nose APFA all you want. The proof in the pudding will be when we win our case. You can be a side line judge all you want. Even if you lose and try to appeal, your union will never be able to post that is REQIRED. Your lame answers will not hold water in a court of law.
[/blockquote]

Iam not side line judging, you are the one bring up the court challenge, not me. If you insist, We have stood our ground met the challenge more than once and prevailed.
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 4:39:09 PM easy victor1 wrote:

Are we worried about working with you when WE win? Absolutly not!! We have maintained our professional dignity through a stike and have had to work with all f/a's. We never make the customer suffer because of our scab VS striker. The TWA f/a's rise above all of the internal problems. [/blockquote]
I guess that's to imply that we AAer's are less than you. That only you can rise to a challenge and prevail. That AAer's are not professional at work that only the LLCer's are. Tacky assessment at best.
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 4:39:09 PM easy victor1 wrote:
Now that shortly we will have about 1500 left...you should start to worry. Your padding in senioirty order is almost gone and soon it could be you. Just remember Mikey, what goes around comes around. We at TWA never forget. [/blockquote]

In the last paragraph you were the more professional, now you imply a threat? You need to decide are you the bigger one who can work with anyone? Striker or God forbid a native AAer, or not?

[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 4:39:09 PM easy victor1 wrote:

From a REAL STRIKER: 3 years.....not a few days.
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[/blockquote]
From a smarter striker, never replaced!!
 

FrugalFlyer

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
254
0
[blockquote]
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On 1/31/2003 4:28:06 PM WingNaPrayer wrote:

Not quite. Had AA not been so eagerly greedy and rushed to buy up TWA, they wouldn't be in as much of a financial mess as they currently are, and furloughs would more than likely have been a lot less.

To top it all off, those former TWA folks who are now just seeing the pinks slips, would have been handed them, along with their hats, years earlier.

The TWA folks just can't seem to get it through their heads that TWA is gone, kaput, period. There are no "TWA routes" or "TWA aircraft" anymore, they are all AA routes and AA aircraft, and have been for quite some time. Yet, the TWA folks, especially the F/As want to keep using the "us vs. them" language. There's no happy medium, TWAs commander in chief raped and pilaged that airline to the point of zero profit, then ran with overflowing pockets straight to the bankruptcy judge and offered up the TWA employees as labor sacrifices. He could have cared less what happened to any of you. . . and so it seems none of the former TWA employess cared either.

Lambert is a piece of crap smelly dump of an airport and AA should just pull out, they don't need it. All they wanted was the maintenance facilities and now that those are in jeopardy of closing, it's time to pull the plug on Saint Loo and stop throwing good money after bad decisions.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Well, I'm almost ashamed to say it, but I agree with almost everything in WnP's post.
 

MiAAmi

Veteran
Aug 21, 2002
1,490
0
www.usaviation.com
If you really want to place the blame on someone why not be real and look at the circumstances that put AA in a position to need to furlough people. IMO AA will have to declare bankruptcy. We all will be effected at some point. I feel for all those that will be on the street. Pointing the finger at the unions is a little ridiculous.
 
C

coldplay

Guest
frankly speaking, good riddance. the more we can get rid of those "TWA" fa, the better off we'd be. who needs a bunch of whiny ungrateful *******s who live in the past?
hey, if it comes to furloughing REAL AA fas, we'd be gracious enough to accept our fates and not start blaming everyone else except ourselves. if we did not purchase TWA and gave those STL FAs a couple years reprive from the unemployment line, we wouldn't be in this mess anyway. but now that's a done deal, we just have to take the lumps.

all I know is that TWA FAs continue to believe the hype that they're being screwed over. can't get it into their thick skulls that their unemployment was in the cards from the time TWA decided to put itself up for sale.

once again good riddance, buh bye and see ya in the unemployment offices soon.
 

nyc6035

Advanced
Aug 20, 2002
123
1
You folks really need to wake up and smell the coffee...the TWA acquisition isn't the problem...AMR and the core AA airline is the problem. Look at your CASM vs. RASM...notice how the RASM number is smaller than CASM? That's you loosing money on every seat you fly a mile.

Compare the TWA CASM number pre-BK to your current RASM number. Notice something else? RASM is bigger than that CASM number. TWA would be making a profit with it's cost structure on an operating basis with your revenue number. TWA (llc) isn't the problem...it's core AA's cost structure.

Look to your management, your contracts and the way the company spends money...that is the reason your loosing money. For years AA was living on the gravy train while corporate flyers paid 25cents a seat mile to fly. Those days are over. You must learn how to make money with RASM of around 10cents. The pie is getting smaller...figure out how to divide the smaller pie while providing a safe reliable flight and you'll continue to be in business. Fail to figure it out and someone will be buying your assets on the courthouse steps. It's pretty straight forward.