Mr. Parker Delta plus 7

[dfw gen]

Delta plus 1,000. Who cares it's all talk. Nothing has been exchanged or agreed upon. My pay is American plus BK rate. I wish these guys start acting like a union should at the table. Too bad the holidays are just around the corner.

Holidays around the corner could be a good thing.

 

[Overspeed]

The point is Parker is trying to diminsh the fact that DL stil has profit sharing plus a higher wage than AA. What is he now promising is still less if you say take the guaranteed 3% over DL. DL will make at minimum 10% profit sharing next year (no one is forecasting DL will lose money) which comes out to 7% more than our guarantee. At best they will make 20% profit sharing which is 17% more than us.
 
Now for the "prediction". I am not talking about Carnac the Magnificent making this prediction. This is every financial analyst that watches the airline sector is predicting the airlines will make big profits in the next two year and long term between 10% to 20% profit growth. No one is predicting a loss by the airlines. Yes there could be a big economic issue that could hurt the airlines but the TWU's track record on taking the safe money and swapping the profit sharing plan for 4.3% was a bad bet. So now the Association line is trust us, the economy could collapse, a new global disease outbreak could happen, and other doom and gloom??? Why is our union talking us down from making more?
 
Get is top rates, get us the best work rules, get is the best benefits, and get us our share of AA's success when we freaking earned it. Why should Parker and his boys make all the value from our labor?

 

[cheetah]

Wow !!!! Was that overspeed or bob Owens?

 

[AANOTOK]

The point is Parker is trying to diminsh the fact that DL stil has profit sharing plus a higher wage than AA. What is he now promising is still less if you say take the guaranteed 3% over DL. DL will make at minimum 10% profit sharing next year (no one is forecasting DL will lose money) which comes out to 7% more than our guarantee. At best they will make 20% profit sharing which is 17% more than us.
 
Now for the "prediction". I am not talking about Carnac the Magnificent making this prediction. This is every financial analyst that watches the airline sector is predicting the airlines will make big profits in the next two year and long term between 10% to 20% profit growth. No one is predicting a loss by the airlines. Yes there could be a big economic issue that could hurt the airlines but the TWU's track record on taking the safe money and swapping the profit sharing plan for 4.3% was a bad bet. So now the Association line is trust us, the economy could collapse, a new global disease outbreak could happen, and other doom and gloom??? Why is our union talking us down from making more?
 
Get is top rates, get us the best work rules, get is the best benefits, and get us our share of AA's success when we freaking earned it. Why should Parker and his boys make all the value from our labor?

Applaud Applaud Applaud...

 

[1AA]

What sucks about this whole Delta plus 7 is we did not have PS when DP made the claim. Now the stakes were taken up a bit and DP is using the PS as a reason to lower the Delta plus 7 down 4% to Delta plus 3%. What's the next excuse for lowering it even more? Meanwhile nobody is talking and the holidays are approaching fast. Thank goodness the IAM is in charge of the association. Can you imagine where we would be if the TWU was in the lead?

 

[xUT]

What sucks about this whole Delta plus 7 is we did not have PS when DP made the claim. Now the stakes were taken up a bit and DP is using the PS as a reason to lower the Delta plus 7 down 4% to Delta plus 3%. What's the next excuse for lowering it even more? Meanwhile nobody is talking and the holidays are approaching fast. Thank goodness the IAM is in charge of the association. Can you imagine where we would be if the TWU was in the lead?

 
I'll remember you said that...
View attachment 11089

 

[1AA]

I'll remember you said that...

rotfl.gif

I'm sure you will remind me. It was sarcasm. The twu and iam are puppets. They are following orders from the association. They know jobs will be cut along with union dues. It's about the money. The international has to keep funding those rediculous salaries and perks as well as the past losers who are collecting a union pension. Meanwhile as members we are losing thousands of dollars as the months pass by.

 

[WeAAsles]

Speaking from example? Ask your beloved IAM what happened to starting negotiations 30 days after NMB certification.

The Company had/has the ability to pull the trigger and force the issue. I "suspect" they chose not to ruffle feathers with that.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Yes there could be a big economic issue that could hurt the airlines but the TWU's track record on taking the safe money and swapping the profit sharing plan for 4.3% was a bad bet.

Yes it does seem like "In Hindsight" that may have been a bad decision?
 

 
So now the Association line is trust us, the economy could collapse, a new global disease outbreak could happen, and other doom and gloom??? Why is our union talking us down from making more?
 
 

Did you and I read the same letter put out by Garry Drummond? I don't read that as anyone trying to "talk us down" personally.

 

[WeAAsles]

 Thank goodness the IAM is in charge of the association. Can you imagine where we would be if the TWU was in the lead?

Actually we might have started negotiating with the company a full month ago at least. But I think the TWU would have been understanding that the IAM had commitments made over a year prior that their AGC's are mandated to attend. One was a Transportation Trades conference last month and the other being District Lodge 141 and 142's annual convention held in Arizona this past week.

District 141 swore in their new President Michael Klemm.

The IAM and the TWU function quite differently as organizations so it's something that we're going to have to get used to and learn to accept.  

 

[bigjets]

The way I remember it the TWU gave up profit sharing to get a raise out of BK. then Doug was saying delta plus 3%. Then delta gave their employees a 4% raise, then Doug gave the flight crews an additional 4% raise, then told us when we get contract we will get 4% raise, starting the delta +7. Now it seems like AA is just giving the flight crews the 4% raise.

If we get the delta +3, it's still roughly a 27% raise, not to mention sick, holiday, etc....

It's unfortunate that ground employees aren't viewed as an important part of AAs flight operations . Not only does the flight crews get jump seat access for non reving (SWA and JetBlue allow jumpseats to all employees) but they also get an additional 4% raise that nobody else gets. After all we already gave away profit sharing how many times do we have to pay for that.


If I remembered that wrong please correct me.

 

[WeAAsles]

Transportation Conference 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eh4nPIMbIi4&feature=youtu.be
 

 

[WeAAsles]

The way I remember it the TWU gave up profit sharing to get a raise out of BK. then Doug was saying delta plus 3%. Then delta gave their employees a 4% raise, then Doug gave the flight crews an additional 4% raise, then told us when we get contract we will get 4% raise, starting the delta +7. Now it seems like AA is just giving the flight crews the 4% raise.

If we get the delta +3, it's still roughly a 27% raise, not to mention sick, holiday, etc....

It's unfortunate that ground employees aren't viewed as an important part of AAs flight operations . Not only does the flight crews get jump seat access for non reving (SWA and JetBlue allow jumpseats to all employees) but they also get an additional 4% raise that nobody else gets. After all we already gave away profit sharing how many times do we have to pay for that.


If I remembered that wrong please correct me.

Actually what you are leaving out is that the FA's will see NOTHING of that 14.5% increase to compare against Delta. In Fleet I was expecting to go up to on the original DL plus 7% $26.54 in BASE wages. Now if the new comment by Parker is true I'll be going up to $29.27 in BASE wage. That's an extra $2.73 over what I was thinking before the DL announcement. And if we hold him to his word of Delta plus 7 that comes out to $30.54.

The Flight crews are getting "currently" nothing. So they can have their jump seats IMO.

Let's also not forget that in another one of the roadshows Doug said that the "original" Delta plus 7 had "already" been budgeted. Already implies past tense. So I expect a retro check on that money back to probably the beginning of 2015?

"Already Budgeted"

 

[bigjets]

Another way to look at it, is that APA and APFA got contracts that made them highest paid, then delta gave their employees a 4% raise, making delta the highest paid. Then Doug gave the 4% raise to the flight crews, making them the highest paid again. Then the delta +7 came about. Now I guess a good way to look at is we are getting that 4% plus the 14% and additional 3% all on top of the difference of pay we are behind delta currently. I think that is an accurate way of looking at and it makes me feel better. 27% raise is pretty nice.

Let's see if the association can do better then what the CEO said he is willing to pay. Otherwise what's the point of the union other then to collect dues and take equity shares away from us.

First post before coffee second post after coffee

 

[WeAAsles]

Another way to look at it, is that APA and APFA got contracts that made them highest paid, then delta gave their employees a 4% raise, making delta the highest paid. Then Doug gave the 4% raise to the flight crews, making them the highest paid again. Then the delta +7 came about. Now I guess a good way to look at is we are getting that 4% plus the 14% and additional 3% all on top of the difference of pay we are behind delta currently. I think that is an accurate way of looking at and it makes me feel better. 27% raise is pretty nice.
 

Since Doug wanted to negotiate directly with us by stating Delta plus 7% in those roadshows he should be held to his original comment. Whatever Delta (Or UAL if they had gotten higher) the higher rate plus 7%. The 7% is meant to make up for PS. And Delta didn't cut it in half completely. They just changed how the formula works. (Albeit there is a hit to the payout)
 

Let's see if the association can do better then what the CEO said he is willing to pay. Otherwise what's the point of the union other then to collect dues and take equity shares away from us.
 

We're just waiting for the Judge in that case to issue his ruling. I suspect it will be coming up pretty soon and the money will be disbursed back to us. Remember another thing. Since most of Delta is non union they didn't get any equity in their bankruptcy. The BK code process 1113 only applies to Unionized groups who have contracts. And that means "Fair and Equitable" treatment to all unsecured creditors and equity to try to mitigate their losses. They also had their Pensions thrown on the PBGC at a substantially reduced rate. They do have some type of Pension though that has something called a "Social Security offset" Meaning if they want to retire early then their Pension get's reduced to equal out for what they get in SS benefits. (Those peeps will not be retiring early)

On a personal note I took my first portion of the pre funding returned to me and invested ALL of it in US (LCC) stock at $18.50 per share. For the first year I was very glad I made that move. Hasn't done squat this year though.