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Negotiations........why?

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dvlhog212 said:
The company is already offering the Delta +7%. They are also on record as stating the "goodwill" Dec 23 2014 4% would be in addition to that. So that`s 11% ish that we are being offered BEFORE we ever get into the room with them. The presentation we had showed the great twu is going in asking for Delta +14%. Breaking it down in simple terms the twu is going in asking for whopping 3% raise. Nice.
 
Yeah, it would be nice if you were right; unfortunately, the 7% "does" include the 4%.  Remember the golden TWU rule, "if there is a negative way to interpret contract language or company promises - always error on the side where you get shafted".  This isn't just a joke, it is completely true.  Also, remember that they only mentioned pay.  There was no mention of half as many holidays for less pay.  No mention of sick time pay or accrual.  The list goes on.
 
dvlhog212 said:
The company is already offering the Delta +7%. They are also on record as stating the "goodwill" Dec 23 2014 4% would be in addition to that. So that`s 11% ish that we are being offered BEFORE we ever get into the room with them. The presentation we had showed the great twu is going in asking for Delta +14%. Breaking it down in simple terms the twu is going in asking for whopping 3% raise. Nice.
at least you got something we get no info at local 591.
 
La Li Lu Le Lo said:
Maybe if you concentrated on getting a UNION that was worth a damn and changing the employee culture at American Airlines instead of blaming Fleet Service for all of your problems your situation might improve.
 
I swear since September 11th everyone went into backstabber survival mode and never came out of it.
 
Grow up.
Ok, I understand now. You think that I meant that the Fleet Service members were at fault, while the the truth is it is the TWU and it's type of unionism Just so you understand, I have tried to replace the TWU for the mechanics for the 26 years of my 31 years of service. I fully admit that I may have been in error to a place the Fleet Service members where they were not. I am very pleased that you are happy with your union and 4th place would cause me to question the union. 4th Place is something I am not familiar with. Growing up is something I wish many of my fellow mechanics would try, growing away from their own fear. I will endeavor to be more clear and do more research in the future when speaking about the membership of Fleet Service. 
 
Yeah, it would be nice if you were right; unfortunately, the 7% "does" include the 4%.  Remember the golden TWU rule, "if there is a negative way to interpret contract language or company promises - always error on the side where you get shafted".  This isn't just a joke, it is completely true.  Also, remember that they only mentioned pay.  There was no mention of half as many holidays for less pay.  No mention of sick time pay or accrual.  The list goes on.
Maybe I`m off, idk. I seem to remember the 4% will be on top the 7%. Guess we will have to wait and see. Some of the other "high points" of the presentation
- all government recognized holidays
- 1600 hours max sick accrual, 100% pd.
- shift differentials based on % (i.e. 20% second shift)
- $1.00/ hour weekend differential
- 3X for holiday worked. They did say Danker proposed 2X plus a comp day for holiday worked.
- full pay for unused sick at retirement
- 6 weeks vc at 25 years. Then 7 or 8 at 34 years. It was some oddball thing. I do not remember clearly.

I`m sure I left some out. Maybe one of my 567 peeps can fill in what I missed. This was all twu stuff as they still had not spoken to the iam guys to see what they were after. I`m pretty sure its going to be a long drawn out mess. We are the ones that will pay the price, as usual- Out.

P.S. It does certainly sound like the LUS Scope will be the price paid for any gains. This also from the meeting.
 
No it's 3% above DL then you add the 4%, that's what the pilots and FAs got.

It's not DL plus 11%.
 
Overspeed said:
Scorpion2,
The greatest concession of them all. Outsourcing damn near everything. NWA did it and proved outsourcing line and base MX could be done if management plans well and uses the craft union hubris to their advantage. Now we have Wroble here at AA with all the experience of how to do it he learned from the NWA/AMFA experience. Thanks "professional craft union" AMFA. Thanks for everything.
Why not blame the maintenance base that never was on AMFA too. Northwest was getting out of maintenance long before AMFA replaced the iam. The state of Minnesota built a base for Northwest in Diluth that they never used and the base in Minneapolis/St paul from what I was told (from friends that were from there) was in need of a complete renovation. Northwest was getting out of maintenance regardless of what union was on the property. So the greatest concession of them all is who's fault?   What unions slowly brought down the industry by getting their members to concede pay n benefits?  What unions never banned together for strength?  What unions acted as cannibals against our brothers because they wanted a craft union and helped bring the final demise to the mechanics at Northwest?   Where was the all powerful aflcio and all the democrats that they keep in their hip pockets when the laws on foreign maintenance were changed?  What a scam it is.   
 
Dvlhog212 when was this presentation? It's my understanding the iam and twu are not on the same page and will first meet July 6th WTF . What have then been doing for the best couple of years?

Anybody have a updated lus senoitry list?
 
paul1 said:
Dvlhog212 when was this presentation? It's my understanding the iam and twu are not on the same page and will first meet July 6th WTF . What have then been doing for the best couple of years?

Anybody have a updated lus senoitry list?
good point!    this association was decided long time ago and in the best interest of the members they wait till now to start figuring things out on our side of the fence and then once they figure that out then they have to negotiate with the company.......WTF      the company is making billions and the exec's are filling their pockets and we are still in the planning stages?   No wonder we are the lowest paid and have the worst work rules in the industry.
 
what is their to negotiate with the company?
 
the company in good faith should just give us back concessions we gave up for the company survival. The company is surviving just fine, the company can give us back some of our concessions right now and still negotiate later.  I promise i wont say " no" and we do not have to vote on it.     
 
can the TWU International get that done or let the company just play the negotiation game while we lose money as they all gain
 
Buck said:
Ok, I understand now. You think that I meant that the Fleet Service members were at fault, while the the truth is it is the TWU and it's type of unionism Just so you understand, I have tried to replace the TWU for the mechanics for the 26 years of my 31 years of service. I fully admit that I may have been in error to a place the Fleet Service members where they were not. I am very pleased that you are happy with your union and 4th place would cause me to question the union. 4th Place is something I am not familiar with. Growing up is something I wish many of my fellow mechanics would try, growing away from their own fear. I will endeavor to be more clear and do more research in the future when speaking about the membership of Fleet Service. 
Buck let me let you in on a little secret. You have fallen for a con.
 
You have been duped into believing that a UNIONS function is to empower the workforce to negotiate with the company for a "living wage". You think that replacing a UNION with another UNION is going to fix all of your problems.
 
Getting a new UNION may work for a short while but the core problem still remains. The problem is the membership has turned docile and they have been conditioned to tolerate the UNIONs failings. That is exactly the way the UNIONs like it. The only way you will ever get what you seek is by slamming your fist down and demanding. The problem with the membership is they have learned to complain but they have forgotten how to get pissed off. Until the membership gets pissed off and decides not to let a parasite define their destiny for his benefit but, shape their own future instead, you will always have this same situation.
 
I think people have forgotten that UNIONS were formed by pissed off people, not complainers that went back to work when the buzzer went off.
 
How has allowing a UNION to negotiate YOUR worth worked out for YOU?
 
A UNION that has no fear of its membership ceases to be a UNION. The second the TWU leadership informed the membership "THEY" own the contract that is when the membership should have dumped their ass. 
 
The high ups in the UNION are not your friends, they are not your coworkers...... they are businessmen and, they have been taking the membership to the cleaners for years.
 
 
 
Buck I was not happy with the TWU. I am not fourth anything. I got fed up enough to leave and my life has improved vastly. I got tired of a disrespectful management culture, working odd hours, seniority "privilege", losing money every year, having my benefits eroded every contract cycle, being exposed to nonstop UNION propaganda...... the list goes on and on. I know not everyone is in a position to leave AA but if you can I recommend it. If AA wants to pay bottom dollar let them have bottom dollar employees. 
 
scorpion 2 said:
Why not blame the maintenance base that never was on AMFA too. Northwest was getting out of maintenance long before AMFA replaced the iam. The state of Minnesota built a base for Northwest in Diluth that they never used...
What?

The Duluth facility may not have run at 100%, but it was most certainly used.
 
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