Negotiations........why?

[Overspeed]

I think they did walk out...to get lunch.

 

[Buck]

I think they did walk out...to get lunch.

As long as the membership paid for that lunch it's ok

 

[scorpion 2]

Have any of them been officially anointed to the negotiation team? I'm sure there are some lackys waiting for the nod to be the next appointee to the negotiation committee,  if there ever is a walkout. 

 

[Realityck]

I'll pop on the AMFA comment, are you going to blame AMFA for everything bad that happens in these closed negotiations?
 
I hope not because I am looking forward to getting everything back and more, you an Industry Leading Contract. On top of that 7% wage increase above Delta, I want all my holidays back.
 
Does anyone really know what Delta + 7% means?

 
 
 
I was responding to a stupid statement, and even you must know it was.
In fact, I was laughing so hard when I replied I overlooked my typo.
 
The negotiations are not going to be easy and there’s a lot of ground to cover.
Let’s not get bogged down in this kind of distraction. We all need to stay focused
on what really needs to be addressed. 

 

[1AA]

I was responding to a stupid statement, and even you must know it was.
In fact, I was laughing so hard when I replied I overlooked my typo.
 
The negotiations are not going to be easy and there’s a lot of ground to cover.
Let’s not get bogged down in this kind of distraction. We all need to stay focused
on what really needs to be addressed.

WE? Your kidding right? You know very well the international will call all the shots and will tell us to vote yes because it's the best we can get right now after all the hard work. Vote WE or YES. It's all French to me.

 

[Overspeed]

Realityck,
I understood from Isom's statements DL+7% means their top rate (don't know if that is with all premiums but probably is) however in his comments during town hall meetings he did point out they outsource more and related that to scope language. I assume he understands they are non-union so I suspect he wants the ability to outsource as much as DL. That being said, DL outsources almost all overhaul. I don't know if DL does phase checks on the line. They may and if they do that would be like AA's LC we do in TUL. AA is apparently shifting to a phase program on the 319/321 like US so that work that used to be in a TUL/Base environment is now done on the line. So TUL headcount could displaced to stations like a big AA class 1. Now engines are another story I suspect. I was told all new aircraft are power by the hour and will be done by IAE, GE ES for the GE90 and GEnx, and the Trent will be done "in-house" at TAESL. The RB211 will die a slow death as 757s park. TUL does CFMs so that means they will have a lot of work due to over 300 737s eventually and about 100 319s. I am not sure if the US 319s will be worked in at TUL.

 

[scorpion 2]

 
 
 
I was responding to a stupid statement, and even you must know it was.
In fact, I was laughing so hard when I replied I overlooked my typo.
 
The negotiations are not going to be easy and there’s a lot of ground to cover.
Let’s not get bogged down in this kind of distraction. We all need to stay focused
on what really needs to be addressed. 

Someone tell me from what position of strength we will be begging/negotiating from? We all need to stay focused? Focused on what? Ive seen the membership pumped years and I mean years ago during contract talks only to have the international bring back something completely weird and mind boggling. This will be no different! 

 

[Buck]

Realityck,
I understood from Isom's statements DL+7% means their top rate (don't know if that is with all premiums but probably is) however in his comments during town hall meetings he did point out they outsource more and related that to scope language. I assume he understands they are non-union so I suspect he wants the ability to outsource as much as DL. That being said, DL outsources almost all overhaul. I don't know if DL does phase checks on the line. They may and if they do that would be like AA's LC we do in TUL. AA is apparently shifting to a phase program on the 319/321 like US so that work that used to be in a TUL/Base environment is now done on the line. So TUL headcount could displaced to stations like a big AA class 1. Now engines are another story I suspect. I was told all new aircraft are power by the hour and will be done by IAE, GE ES for the GE90 and GEnx, and the Trent will be done "in-house" at TAESL. The RB211 will die a slow death as 757s park. TUL does CFMs so that means they will have a lot of work due to over 300 737s eventually and about 100 319s. I am not sure if the US 319s will be worked in at TUL.

At Charlotte, Parker said 7% more than the top mechanic at Delta.  Last I heard Delta was at $42. But yes, Delta farms out , I have been told 50.1% of there work and yes they are non-union. There is no way the Association would allow themselves to be tricked into losing jobs for money. I did hear that the 737 fleet may increase as high as 600??

 

[Buck]

Someone tell me from what position of strength we will be begging/negotiating from? We all need to stay focused? Focused on what? Ive seen the membership pumped years and I mean years ago during contract talks only to have the international bring back something completely weird and mind boggling. This will be no different! 

The Association

 

[700UW]

DL farms out all their airframe overhaul and most of the cabin mods.
 
PMUS Airbus get a C1-C11 and the C11 is a multi-day C-check, the other checks or overnight or a day to several days.
 
Every five to six years, the airbus narrowbody get an S-Check dont at base depending on when the plane was built, it is five to six year time period before the S-Check, which is all the C's combined an additional tasks.

 

[Buck]

I guess this is a good time to sort the checks out. 
 
At Overhaul AA has Heavy C and Light C checks Drop Ins and Special Visits with many ECO's being added to whatever the BOW is.
 
5 days and 15 days are the norm, some variation is the Normal....

 

[700UW]

PMUS does HMV annuals on the A330s, and C and S-Checks on the narrow body and the Widebodies get an S-Check also every five to six years.  They still do some 757 HMVs also.

 

[1AA]

Someone tell me from what position of strength we will be begging/negotiating from? We all need to stay focused? Focused on what? Ive seen the membership pumped years and I mean years ago during contract talks only to have the international bring back something completely weird and mind boggling. This will be no different!

This time we are really in a situation that had never been tested. First thing is we have two companies that have to work as one. Look at the different work rules, benefits, structures and so on. They have to come together as one. You have the company on one side with their proposal or should I say demands. Then you have the association trying to figure a way to bring both work ethics and everything else into one proposal. Then add the usual line vs overhaul fight added by AA overhaul vs USAir overhaul and AA line vs USAir line. Then you have the holiday and o/t pay. The association and company will play us for fools. If we want to keep the ten holidays what is the union going to give up? USAir has 10 and wants to keep them AA has 5 and wants the 10 back. So will the association and company play us and tell the AA guys if you want the 10 back what are you going to give back? Will the same happen to the USAir guys if you want to keep your 10 what are you going to give back. You see how this is going to get played out. That is only one item. Addressing all the other differences will take time. I don't expect any proposal to vote on for a long time. So if anyone is expecting a Delta plus 7% and the 4% bonus for having a JCBA anytime soon don't hold your breath. Hopefully we will get our mid term wage adjustment in September. Everyone wants their overdue money and are relying on the union to get it for us. Well the union is the one to blame for it. The association filing is the main reason we don't have our money. They still have our 14% equity, prefunding match still pending and everyday that goes by a 4% loss of pay. Do you think the union or the association is here for your best interest? Where is the proof that they care about the membership? I personally believe we are going to get nothing good out of our next contract. It's just too complicated to get a good deal with this cluster of a negotiating tactic. Look at UAL/CAL. 5 years of negotiations and still no JCBA.

 

[Vortilon]

This time we are really in a situation that had never been tested. First thing is we have two companies that have to work as one. Look at the different work rules, benefits, structures and so on. They have to come together as one. You have the company on one side with their proposal or should I say demands. Then you have the association trying to figure a way to bring both work ethics and everything else into one proposal. Then add the usual line vs overhaul fight added by AA overhaul vs USAir overhaul and AA line vs USAir line. Then you have the holiday and o/t pay. The association and company will play us for fools. If we want to keep the ten holidays what is the union going to give up? USAir has 10 and wants to keep them AA has 5 and wants the 10 back. So will the association and company play us and tell the AA guys if you want the 10 back what are you going to give back? Will the same happen to the USAir guys if you want to keep your 10 what are you going to give back. You see how this is going to get played out. That is only one item. Addressing all the other differences will take time. I don't expect any proposal to vote on for a long time. So if anyone is expecting a Delta plus 7% and the 4% bonus for having a JCBA anytime soon don't hold your breath. Hopefully we will get our mid term wage adjustment in September. Everyone wants their overdue money and are relying on the union to get it for us. Well the union is the one to blame for it. The association filing is the main reason we don't have our money. They still have our 14% equity, prefunding match still pending and everyday that goes by a 4% loss of pay. Do you think the union or the association is here for your best interest? Where is the proof that they care about the membership? I personally believe we are going to get nothing good out of our next contract. It's just too complicated to get a good deal with this cluster of a negotiating tactic. Look at UAL/CAL. 5 years of negotiations and still no JCBA.

 
Every AMT that I have spoken with - in regard to the up-coming joint contract  - expects full restoration, or damn close to it.  Anything less would be a non starter - I agree.  The amount of money that the company has saved by dragging their feet for the last 12 years on keeping the AA AMTs the lowest paid in the industry - with the worst benefits - more than offsets making things right with us now.  1AA is right, negotiations are hard enough under normal circumstances, I have zero to very little confidence in the joint committee to work out their differences let alone come up with a proposal that doesn't screw us - yet again.  All one has to do is look at the UAL-CAL AMT negotiations - going on 5 years, and they were both already represented by the Teamsters - WTF? 
 
If we leave it up to the Union negotiators, I am afraid we are screwed.  The company has zero incentive to get a contract with the AMTs, the union leaders at the IAM&TWU have zero incentive - the dues keep coming either way!  It seems proper incentive would be called for.  No more unnecessary risks taken, work safe. 

 

[dfw gen]

And the best part is that we are such a priority that the iam and twu can wait a month before even meeting to agree on what to work out with the two contracts.
These idiots should have had that all worked out six months ago.