New 18% Paycut For Pilots

[kcabpilot]

I'm showing that UAL pilots are currently about 9% behind their peers' and after this next round, they'll be around 22% behind their peers' average.

[post="229436"][/post]​

and you're gonna say......'okay' ?

 

[spacewaitress]

But now I understand. You're bitter. You're angry.

[post="229450"][/post]​

I don't think we're bitter. Just pointing out the fact history has shown....all you guys can be trusted to do is blow smoke up our ass to further your own agenda. After the flight attendants supported your strike in '85, you conveniently forgot about "union solidarity" once it served your needs.

And I wouldn't be calling us bitter when 20 years after the fact you can't even lose your scab lists.

There's no doubt in my mind that everything you get, you've earned. Good luck!

 

[737nCH11]

I wouldn't call you bitter. I think shrill would be a better word.

 

[UAL_TECH]

Would never cross an ALPA endorsed picket line.

[post="229450"][/post]​

Is there such a thing?
I thought that the AFL-CIO membership required you to not cross an AFL-CIO 'endorsed' picket line. Does it have to be ALPA endorsed also or exclusively by ALPA?

Just wondering.........

B) UT

 

[spacewaitress]

Nope, just one of the unwashed masses.

BTW, what is a 6% contribution to a "C" fund. Is this new. I haven't heard of it before the summary was posted on this forum.

In effect, it appears ALPA isn't really taking any sort of hit with pensions. Yeah, the defined benefit is gone, but everyone is taking that.

Looks like any loss in pay, 14.7%, is made up in your pension %s.

 

[737nCH11]

Space,

If you don't like what is happening to you and your situation, then go apply to work at Pottery Barn or Pier1. Just stop with the pilot envy thing.

 

[767jetz]

In effect, it appears ALPA isn't really taking any sort of hit with pensions. Yeah, the defined benefit is gone, but everyone is taking that.

Looks like any loss in pay, 14.7%, is made up in your pension %s.

[post="229596"][/post]​

Way, Way, Way off base.

To clarify, the 4% contribution to the 401K that was part of the term sheet, was basically negotiated to 6% by ALPA. They call it a "C" plan for contratual reasons. It's basically the same thing. For example, right now my 401K and PDAP ("B" plan) are all in the same account and managed as one.

This hardly makes up for the enormously disproportionate hit we will take when the pensions are terminated. So you can sleep well spacewaitress, knowing we are taking it in the shorts big time.

I know you are already convinced that we are getting special treatment, so there's really no convincing you otherwise. I respond to you only to clarify for other readers what you are determined to spin into some conspiracy by ALPA against everyone else.

Just to put things into perspective, when all is said and done, I will have taken a 41%-42% straight pay cut since we entered BK. That does not include loss of pension, reduction in B fund, work rules, per diem, International and night pay, quality of life, etc. etc. If I were to bump to the Airbus (As many of my peers have) that pay cut would be 50%. Did you get that????????????? HALF!!!!!!!!!! So don't cry to me about how unfair this situation is to you personally, until you lose HALF of your pay on top of your pension and other cuts.

To all the other employees, I feel your pain, and this round of cuts sucks for everyone. EVERYONE, not just poor, poor spacewaitress. It's time for each of us to consider if it's worth continuing in this profession with this coompany, or not. But to come out and bash those of us who have taken a bigger cut than anyone else, and claim that it's still not enough is absurd.

 

[Bear96]

I kinda have to agree with the pilot sentiment on this. I am a F/A and I am getting tired of hearing other F/As talk about the grand conspiracy about how ALPA isn't giving up much or there are secret givebacks going on behind the scenes.

The pilots have given BIG TIME-- from what I can tell, even disproportionately compared to the other groups. While I think that is fair in some ways, it is NOT fair for other groups to downplay what the pilots gave up in the first round and what they are giving now.

767jets, you described it accurately. Some F/As (and probably other work groups as well) have made up their minds that there are secret deals and conspiracies going on, and I don't think there is much you can do to change their opinion. However, I for one appreciate your explanations and am learning from them.

 

[spacewaitress]

Space,

If you don't like what is happening to you and your situation, then go apply to work at Pottery Barn or Pier1. Just stop with the pilot envy thing.

[post="229604"][/post]​

Don't be shrill now, there is no pilot envy...pottery barn isn't in my long term plans, you?

And you can stop with the patronizing. You only confirm the worst generalizations. I work purser and always have good relations with the cockpit crew. I think your attitude would be a problem though.

Are you the pilot that demanded that a flight attendant kiss his shoes? Sounds like it.

 

[spacewaitress]

So don't cry to me about how unfair this situation is to you personally, until you lose HALF of your pay on top of your pension and other cuts.

To all the other employees, I feel your pain, and this round of cuts sucks for everyone. EVERYONE, not just poor, poor spacewaitress. It's time for each of us to consider if it's worth continuing in this profession with this coompany, or not. But to come out and bash those of us who have taken a bigger cut than anyone else, and claim that it's still not enough is absurd.

[post="229623"][/post]​

You seem to be reading a lot between the lines erroneously.

 

[FWAAA]

The PBGC benefit caps will not affect FA pensions at all. FAs will receive 100% of their vested benefit.

The cap will affect pilots. They will only receive a small fraction of their pension from the PBGC.

To make it worse, FAs who retire at 65 will likely receive a higher pension from the PBGC than will the pilots who will retire at age 60, since the PBGC cap is much lower for a person who retires at 60 than someone retiring at 65.

No matter how you try to spin it, the pilots are taking the biggest hit, both in absolute dollars AND on a percentage basis.

 

[spacewaitress]

When all is said and done, your %s are about in line with what ours are.

Given the fact that our mins have raised, we have the opportunity, thus far, to make up some of the lost income.

I am working about 10% more hours for the same or slightly less pay.
Loss of 4 holidays.
I have Kaiser so don't pay insurance...that'll change soon.
Loss of vacation pay, work rules, ground pay, COLA, perdiem lower.

Your losses may look worse relatively speaking, but in reality, I doubt that the overall % is much different.

 

[spacewaitress]

The PBGC benefit caps will not affect FA pensions at all. FAs will receive 100% of their vested benefit.

The cap will affect pilots. They will only receive a small fraction of their pension from the PBGC.

To make it worse, FAs who retire at 65 will likely receive a higher pension from the PBGC than will the pilots who will retire at age 60, since the PBGC cap is much lower for a person who retires at 60 than someone retiring at 65.

No matter how you try to spin it, the pilots are taking the biggest hit, both in absolute dollars AND on a percentage basis.

[post="229645"][/post]​

I'm not holding my breath while waiting to see if PBGC will be there when I need them.

 

[Borescope]

No matter how you try to spin it, the pilots are taking the biggest hit, both in absolute dollars AND on a percentage basis.

[post="229645"][/post]​

AND IT'S ABOUT TIME COULDN'T HAPPEN TO A NICER GROUP OF FELLA'S

 

[mrfish3726]

No matter how big a hit the pilot group is taking, it will still not effect them the way it is going to effect the other employee groups. Big difference in ANY kind of 6 figure salary compared to wages that will be dating back to the MID 80'S. But relax Borescope and Spacewaitress remember what McDonald said in the BK court that you should feel privledged to just still have a job at UniTED. And remember that they think you'll still be compensated better than your peirs at other Legacy Carriers and compensated even MORE than the LCC'S, NOT

I am with you two, the pilot contract will be easier for them to swallow then the up coming AMFA, AFA, and IAM concessions. And from the sounds of UniTEDs predictions in the recent 8K filing I'd be leaving that crap hole ASAP!