New AA Union Drive

[Kev3188]

Is "CIO" the same as former regular "Checking it Out?"

 

[CIO]

Thats not true, this deal was not negotoiated by the Locals, how can you negotiate if you are told to stay silent, not show expressions and 'Sit like a robot"? The only one allowed to speak to the company during "negotiations" is the International. The rest are witness's, look at Article 47.

The main proponents of this deal held International Titles. Who wrote and printed up the ballott insert? Not the committee, the International did.

The fact is the International has too much control over the AA system. They are too cozy with management. SWA and Local 100 are TWU but they dont have the same problems. SWA gets industry leading contracts while their company makes a profit selling seats for $69, our company builds Taj Mahals all over the world and sell seats for $10,000 and claims a loss, then tells us that we are the problem and our International doesnt do much to dispute that. SWA has Tom McDaniels, Local 100 has John Samuelson, they speak for the entire membership thats covered under their contracts. Both McDaniels and Samuelson were elected by their memberships to do that. Who speaks for us? Don Videtich? Who voted for him? Bobby Gless? Who voted for him? John Conley? Who voted for him?

The International created this mess, if they dont fix it the membership will do it without them.

Bob,

The line stations voted 3 to 2 to bring the TA back. 514 president voted to bring it back, the membership voted to remove him. The ATD (Don) did not have a voting power. You had the ability to object at that time. You had a responsibilty to voice your objections, instead, you try and blame the International afterwards. Why not stand up and admit you were part of the problem? In a democratic society the majority rules.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bob,

The line stations voted 3 to 2 to bring the TA back. 514 president voted to bring it back, the membership voted to remove him. The ATD (Don) did not have a voting power. You had the ability to object at that time. You had a responsibilty to voice your objections, instead, you try and blame the International afterwards. Why not stand up and admit you were part of the problem? In a democratic society the majority rules.

Some things never change do they cio. Your ability to slander from behind an alias must be something special, almost like a super power for you.

Bob did speak up, he voted NO to bring this t/a back.

In a democratic society the majority does rule the day. Thank you for pointing out the problem with the twu. Roll-call anyone?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Bob,

The line stations voted 3 to 2 to bring the TA back. 514 president voted to bring it back, the membership voted to remove him. The ATD (Don) did not have a voting power. You had the ability to object at that time. You had a responsibilty to voice your objections, instead, you try and blame the International afterwards. Why not stand up and admit you were part of the problem? In a democratic society the majority rules.

Bob Owens Has been objecting all along only to be shut down or shut out. How do I know this? because he has kept us informed all along. We compared notes and came to the same conclusions based on the history of negotiations. The sell outs either get promoted or keeping selling out in the hopes of winning the rewards for themselves. how else do you explain a tentative agreement written by the company and pushed through negotiations with no debate allowed? What if the presidents had time to consult with their boards and their memberships before voting on the T/A? does anyone believe they would have instructed their presidents to vote in favor of it? The biggest problem is that the membership may not be fully aware of the long term ramifications of the T/A and it is irresponsible of the International and the negotiating committee only to point out the good and not the bad, and what potentially may harm us in the future!

 

[Birdman]

Bob,

The line stations voted 3 to 2 to bring the TA back. 514 president voted to bring it back, the membership voted to remove him. The ATD (Don) did not have a voting power. You had the ability to object at that time. You had a responsibilty to voice your objections, instead, you try and blame the International afterwards. Why not stand up and admit you were part of the problem? In a democratic society the majority rules.

CIO, while you did respond to a direct challenge, which I applaud, you seem to have a propensity for making broad and misleading statements without acknowledging all the facts. Will you not admit that the international did all the negotiating and the international applied direct influence on the yes voters, even after eye witness accounts? I know for a fact that the 514 facility maintenance "no voter" was outraged and vocal with the international over the whole process. You said Bob should admit he is part of the problem? Lets see if you can respond to another direct challenge and explain why Bob should admit to that outlandish claim.

 

[TWU informer]

Why not stand up and admit you were part of the problem? In a democratic society the majority rules.

Oh but we are no longer working in a Democratic Society once we sign our membership card to join the TWU and begin paying dues. In fact, under the TWU Constitution a majority rule local election would be a violation and the Constitution requires pluarity elections.

If you agree with majority rule and wish to use that to make your point then how do you feel about your Local President being elected with 680 votes while over 1900 votes were cast for his opponents?

Does majority rule mean something to you in alll aspects of unionsim?
Or just when you feel compelled to post here?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob,

The line stations voted 3 to 2 to bring the TA back. 514 president voted to bring it back, the membership voted to remove him. The ATD (Don) did not have a voting power. You had the ability to object at that time. You had a responsibilty to voice your objections, instead, you try and blame the International afterwards. Why not stand up and admit you were part of the problem? In a democratic society the majority rules.

Dont know where you've been. I've voiced my objections at every level possible, at the committee, diectly to Jim Little and here on the web.

Don may not have a vote but he has a lot of say and control. When the company is in the room he is the only one who has any say, in fact he told me I could not even send E-mails out that included the company. When the whole Committee is in the room he makes sure that it follows his agenda by simply cutting people off if he doesnt like what they are saying or if things arent going as he would like he would call for a break. If rules got in the way he would change them claiming that he consulted with Legal and its Ok (Of course its OK, all committees serve at the behest of the International). When Steve Luis made a motion to remove JR and it didnt have the required 2/3s vote Don decided it wasnt needed any longer, when the Stores guys made a motion to reconsider on the TA he ruled it out of order, despite the fact that the Fleet guys at first voted yes then their TA was rescinded.

The International did have voting power, Luis, Gilboy, Clark and Zimmerman all have International Titles, all voted YES and I suspect quite a few others desire one.

Democratic Society? Sorry I never saw a ballott for ATD officials. Thats like saying that justice has been done by a Kangaroo Court. Democracy is majority rule but Democracy needs more, it needs transparancy, free debate and accountability. When you look at the flier that the International sent out, without even informing the Negotiating Committee, they only detail the plus's and dont even mention many of the Concessions and give very little details on the Concessions that are in there. Some of the Concessions are made to sould like gains, such as 'Workers under 50 will no longer have to prefund their retiree medical"!!

 

[Birdman]

Ok CIO, don't disappoint us. Bob has hit the ball squarely back over the net into your court.

 

[TWU informer]

cricket, cricket, churp churp....

Sure is quiet from CIO

Maybe he needs to stay at a Holiday Inn Express one evening and try again.

 

[Duke787]

I got back from vacation today, non-reving is hell with such high load factors. Before I punched in, I received AMP info from two different guys. ORD

Still waiting to see the numbers from TUL, before I get to excited, seeing how they are always the ones protecting the TWU.

Is the FSC local 514 president already trying to scare the TUL mechs with being spun off?

9300 mechs and TUL couldn't find one guy to vote for? And not even half the mechs voted.

This is why I think the TA is going to pass.

 

[CIO]

Thats not true, this deal was not negotoiated by the Locals, how can you negotiate if you are told to stay silent, not show expressions and 'Sit like a robot"? The only one allowed to speak to the company during "negotiations" is the International. The rest are witness's, look at Article 47.

The main proponents of this deal held International Titles. Who wrote and printed up the ballott insert? Not the committee, the International did.

The fact is the International has too much control over the AA system. They are too cozy with management. SWA and Local 100 are TWU but they dont have the same problems. SWA gets industry leading contracts while their company makes a profit selling seats for $69, our company builds Taj Mahals all over the world and sell seats for $10,000 and claims a loss, then tells us that we are the problem and our International doesnt do much to dispute that. SWA has Tom McDaniels, Local 100 has John Samuelson, they speak for the entire membership thats covered under their contracts. Both McDaniels and Samuelson were elected by their memberships to do that. Who speaks for us? Don Videtich? Who voted for him? Bobby Gless? Who voted for him? John Conley? Who voted for him?

The International created this mess, if they dont fix it the membership will do it without them.

Is this what you want?



Bob,

I believe you are representing your membership and have done everything to better your local, I also give you credit for standing your ground on many issues and! you are passionate in your beliefs. My point is, you and the other negotiators were in a room discussing the T/A and were looking out for your local best interest instead of looking out for the best interest of the membership as a hole. If you read the T/A, on many occasions it benefits a few instead of the many.

The agreement was brought back after a roll call vote of all local Presidents and representatives on the Negotiating Committee after the President of the Miami Local made a motion to accept. Before the vote each representative on the Committee was asked for his opinion. Approximately two thirds of the members of the Committee voted to bring the agreement back including three out of the five line local Presidents and the President of local 514. No-one on the International staff had a vote and no-one who voted to bring the agreement back has stated he was intimidated or manipulated into doing so.


I wonder if some of the local negotiators were mislead by other negotiators, due to lack of experience, wanted to belong or just went with the flow. Or! better yet, coming up for re-election.

Looks like some parts of the T/A were poorly written, if it passes! the interpretation at the time of discussion are going to be invaluable. If it fails! we will not see a contract until AMP goes by the wayside. I hope I’m wrong and the Negotiators get back together, listen to the membership, change a few items and bring it back without additional concessions. More money would be nice. But, I don’t anticipate this happening in our current environment.


I also believe AMP Republicans will be helping AA to follow the path of NWA Maintenance. Right now the membership at AA has the same attitudes of the NWA AMT’s. “ Lets hold our ground at all costs as we walk out the door in disbelief ”.

AMP/AMFA organizers have done an excellent job at tearing down our profession and Unions.

 

[odie01]

Is this what you want?



Bob,

I believe you are representing your membership and have done everything to better your local, I also give you credit for standing your ground on many issues and! you are passionate in your beliefs. My point is, you and the other negotiators were in a room discussing the T/A and were looking out for your local best interest instead of looking out for the best interest of the membership as a hole. If you read the T/A, on many occasions it benefits a few instead of the many.

The agreement was brought back after a roll call vote of all local Presidents and representatives on the Negotiating Committee after the President of the Miami Local made a motion to accept. Before the vote each representative on the Committee was asked for his opinion. Approximately two thirds of the members of the Committee voted to bring the agreement back including three out of the five line local Presidents and the President of local 514. No-one on the International staff had a vote and no-one who voted to bring the agreement back has stated he was intimidated or manipulated into doing so.


I wonder if some of the local negotiators were mislead by other negotiators, due to lack of experience, wanted to belong or just went with the flow. Or! better yet, coming up for re-election.

Looks like some parts of the T/A were poorly written, if it passes! the interpretation at the time of discussion are going to be invaluable. If it fails! we will not see a contract until AMP goes by the wayside. I hope I’m wrong and the Negotiators get back together, listen to the membership, change a few items and bring it back without additional concessions. More money would be nice. But, I don’t anticipate this happening in our current environment.


I also believe AMP Republicans will be helping AA to follow the path of NWA Maintenance. Right now the membership at AA has the same attitudes of the NWA AMT’s. “ Lets hold our ground at all costs as we walk out the door in disbelief ”.

AMP/AMFA organizers have done an excellent job at tearing down our profession and Unions.

Their is no way that you are a mechanic. I've read your previous posts, and I do believe that you may be working for Jim Little as a paid poster on this board.

 

[Duke787]

Is this what you want?



Bob,

I believe you are representing your membership and have done everything to better your local, I also give you credit for standing your ground on many issues and! you are passionate in your beliefs. My point is, you and the other negotiators were in a room discussing the T/A and were looking out for your local best interest instead of looking out for the best interest of the membership as a hole. If you read the T/A, on many occasions it benefits a few instead of the many.

The agreement was brought back after a roll call vote of all local Presidents and representatives on the Negotiating Committee after the President of the Miami Local made a motion to accept. Before the vote each representative on the Committee was asked for his opinion. Approximately two thirds of the members of the Committee voted to bring the agreement back including three out of the five line local Presidents and the President of local 514. No-one on the International staff had a vote and no-one who voted to bring the agreement back has stated he was intimidated or manipulated into doing so.


I wonder if some of the local negotiators were mislead by other negotiators, due to lack of experience, wanted to belong or just went with the flow. Or! better yet, coming up for re-election.

Looks like some parts of the T/A were poorly written, if it passes! the interpretation at the time of discussion are going to be invaluable. If it fails! we will not see a contract until AMP goes by the wayside. I hope I’m wrong and the Negotiators get back together, listen to the membership, change a few items and bring it back without additional concessions. More money would be nice. But, I don’t anticipate this happening in our current environment.


I also believe AMP Republicans will be helping AA to follow the path of NWA Maintenance. Right now the membership at AA has the same attitudes of the NWA AMT’s. “ Lets hold our ground at all costs as we walk out the door in disbelief ”.

AMP/AMFA organizers have done an excellent job at tearing down our profession and Unions.

I disagree with you, AMFA has done nothing but help our profession. I do think they were to bull headed when they should have been flexible, but then again it did seem like no matter what, NWA was going to brake that union.

How would AMP "Republicans" help do away with OH? If AA wants to sell TUL AA will sell TUL, at least the TA gives TUL mech's some language to help them.

I do think that expecting us to get the 2001 contract is delusional, and dangerous.

 

[Birdman]

I also believe AMP Republicans will be helping AA to follow the path of NWA Maintenance. Right now the membership at AA has the same attitudes of the NWA AMT’s. “ Lets hold our ground at all costs as we walk out the door in disbelief ”.

AMP/AMFA organizers have done an excellent job at tearing down our profession and Unions.

I would appreciate it if you wouldn't bait this discussion with politics. It's just a classic hit and run tactic to throw off a debate one is losing. And there you go again making broad and misleading statements without acknowledging all the facts of the NWA massacre. This thread is about an independent union drive at AA.

 

[Duke787]

A lot of talk about " AMP being the same bunch if knuckleheads that brought us AMFA" not my words. It is kind of funny how the same guys pushing for AMP, were the same guys saying AMFA was going to be the answer for us.

Seeing a lot of unsigned cards in the break rooms. The TUL guys are really going to have to sell this one. <_<

ORD