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I still think it's a big stretch to claim that the "good faith" language was breached, when that is a completely subjective term. Like I've stated, the fact that NWA offered 2700 jobs when they ideally wanted only 900 sounds like a "good faith" offer considering the circumstances. AMFA had a choice in the matter. The absence of a good choice is not equivilant to not having a choice. I'm not sure why that reality continues to be ignored. It must be another union mentality thing that I can't grasp.

"At will" employees are treated just as fairly as union employees. I'm not sure why the "at-will" status is considered a negative position to be in. It allows you to be judged on your own merits, and with it, you get treated like a professional. I.E., if you can't cut it, then you get let go, rather than having to keep around incompetent people that are protected by their union.

To keep asserting that NWA is going to ask for additional concessions from the current mechanics is just a little bit silly when you think about the current nature of the workforce. The operation can not handle a large exodus of mechanics at this point, so NWA must keep the current guys happy to avoid an operational disaster that heavy attrition would cause. The pay levels are at the proper market level, and with the current mechanics being made up largely of "drifters", they're pay has to remain at market levels to keep them. If they were all union members remaining, then yes, I could see additional concessions as a possibility, as NWA would be confident that there would still be enough people willing to work at the lower wages. An interesting dynamic, though, would present itself if AMFA votes for the current agreement, which would open the door for AMFA guys to backfill anybody that leaves. With that increase in the supply of mechanics, maybe that opens the door to further lower the pay levels and still garner an adequate workforce. I still doubt it would happen, but I guess that would move it from a 0% chance to maybe a 10% chance.

What do you call planning 18 months for a forced strike (or lockout) finman? What do you call using insulting and inflammatory remarks during negotiations in the attempt to anger the employees? One example (I have many more); the demand by Scab Air management to the PFAA during negotiations language stating they would not pay to ship the body of a flight attendant home from a foriegn country, even if they died on duty. Man, that's really cold, that's the Scab Air your defending? Please finman, don't try to claim Scab Air management had any intention of "negotiating", the facts bear otherwise. This is reality sir, regardless of your management delusions to the contrary.

Your sadly hilarious statement the "at will" employees will be treated as fairly as the union employees is bad news for them. They are screwed, and they don't have a chance with anyone to at least try and defend them. The thought of Scab Air management suddenly turning legitimate and humane in respect to its workers makes one want to vomit in disgust. Incompetent management and exponentially increasing executive compensation is the glaring issue today. In 2004, the average executive made 431 times the average worker in 2004. This was up from a already insane 301 times the average worker wages in 2001. I would bet the number is 500 times or more in 2005. Quite a large problem I would say, seeing that everything you buy today is made in China. Not to forget, over $298 million is owed to the employees who gave once again to the Scab Air coffers in 1993, this after several years of high profits. Even with the New York judges ruling against management, the money still has not been paid. I presume its being appealed by greedy management, as they can never enrich themselves enough .

According to Neil "the butcher" Cohen, the scabs are being targeted for pay cuts. Scab Air management is determined to survive by driving the anti-labor agenda even further. In May, Northwest hired Neal Cohen as its top financial officer--the man who, in the same job at US Airways, terminated the pilots’ pensions and pushed other huge cuts before walking away with a $2.5 million severance package. What a guy.

Finman you can twist and turn the truth all you like. Fact is Scab Air is sinking, fast. With a failing business plan, no cash, more attacks on the beleaguered workers, and the looming January bankruptcy court hearing, it looks grim for Scab Air. Liquidation is could unfortunately (for the workers) be the end result. Good job Dougie and friends.
 
What do you call planning 18 months for a forced strike (or lockout) finman? What do you call using insulting and inflammatory remarks during negotiations in the attempt to anger the employees? One example (I have many more); the demand by Scab Air management to the PFAA during negotiations language stating they would not pay to ship the body of a flight attendant home from a foriegn country, even if they died on duty. Man, that's really cold, that's the Scab Air your defending? Please finman, don't try to claim Scab Air management had any intention of "negotiating", the facts bear otherwise. This is reality sir, regardless of your management delusions to the contrary.

Your sadly hilarious statement the "at will" employees will be treated as fairly as the union employees is bad news for them. They are screwed, and they don't have a chance with anyone to at least try and defend them. The thought of Scab Air management suddenly turning legitimate and humane in respect to its workers makes one want to vomit in disgust. Incompetent management and exponentially increasing executive compensation is the glaring issue today. In 2004, the average executive made 431 times the average worker in 2004. This was up from a already insane 301 times the average worker wages in 2001. I would bet the number is 500 times or more in 2005. Quite a large problem I would say, seeing that everything you buy today is made in China. Not to forget, over $298 million is owed to the employees who gave once again to the Scab Air coffers in 1993, this after several years of high profits. Even with the New York judges ruling against management, the money still has not been paid. I presume its being appealed by greedy management, as they can never enrich themselves enough .

According to Neil "the butcher" Cohen, the scabs are being targeted for pay cuts. Scab Air management is determined to survive by driving the anti-labor agenda even further. In May, Northwest hired Neal Cohen as its top financial officer--the man who, in the same job at US Airways, terminated the pilots’ pensions and pushed other huge cuts before walking away with a $2.5 million severance package. What a guy.

Finman you can twist and turn the truth all you like. Fact is Scab Air is sinking, fast. With a failing business plan, no cash, more attacks on the beleaguered workers, and the looming January bankruptcy court hearing, it looks grim for Scab Air. Liquidation is could unfortunately (for the workers) be the end result. Good job Dougie and friends.
I realize that your hatred for NWA is not going to be swayed by anything, as you will certainly just come up with some off-the-wall example of something that NWA was alleged of doing to justify your position that NWA's attempt to become a profitable airline are somehow shrouded in evil intent. Someone with more time (and insight) than myself could lay out the entire business justification behind every decision and you'd still just keep repeating the rhetoric that you've committed yourself to.

A business in peril has to make unpopular decisions, that's just a fact of life. It's easy to sit back and hurl insults and accusations at the people making those decisions, but the question remains, what would you do in contrast to make NWA profitable? This board is supposed to be the informative exchange of ideas, not just a sounding board for "gotcha" obscure newspaper clips and bumper sticker one liners. If labor costs are the only cost that have not been aggressivily managed to date, and the company is still losing money, then there is really no option left but to bring those down to current market levels. It sucks for everyone, but the alternative is no airline at all, and most reasonable people would choose the former.

I'll just address a couple of your points, as many of them are just things that have no relevance to the issues, but are just the typical talking points from the leftist union newsletters.

1) Knowing what it knows today, do you think AMFA would have voted to save 2700 mechanic jobs and take a 25% pay cut? If the answer is yes, then obviously NWA bargained in good faith. (good faith doesn't mean you shoot yourself in the head by offering something that will lead to your own demise)

2) Planning for 18 months for a potential strike is not evidence of a forced strike, but common sense contingency planning and smart leveraging during negotiations. It may look like a cold calculated plan to run off AMFA, but NWA did what was best for NWA, which is what it is inherently obligated to do.

3) Executive pay is 500 times higher than the average worker blah, blah, blah. That is what is called a red herring. It is meant only to encite an emotional response, but has no real impact on the issue at hand. By the way, NWA VP executive level pay is maybe about 5-10 times what the average employee makes. Shocking, huh, I guess throwing around 400-500 is pretty much irrelevant when discussing the NWA issues. Of course, you are probably just using CEO pay at fortune 500 companies, which includes in it's calculation guys like Bill Gates and others that throw that average way out of whack. As you probably know, even Steenlands base salary is only about $500K, which is tiny compared to CEO's of other similarly sized companies.

4) When the $298M came due, NWA could not make that payout due to the financial situation NWA was in. Preferred stock, (which is what this stock was made up of) can not be repurchased when there are no profits. Obviously that sucks for those that held on to those stocks until recently, but NWA can't shirk it's fiduciary responsibility just to be nice.

5) You don't like Neil Cohen, we get it. He has extensive experience with the restructuring process, which is largerly why he was brought to NWA. The guy is just doing his job, which is to help NWA emerge from bankruptcy as a strong profitable company. He will earn every penny he gets here if he is able to accomplish that.

6) NWA is certainly not in a good position, but hopefully with a new business plan (which will result from a Ch.11 reorg) things will turn around. I'm glad to see that at least you're not rooting for a Ch. 7 liquidation as some on this board seem to be.
 
neil conehead was brought into NWA from USAIR so he could give a lot more screwing to the employees who are working hard to provide for their families. most of us on this board realize that you are a part of mgmt making the big bucks while the rest of us are trying to figure out if we should pay the food or the bills. mgmt needs to have huge paycuts in order to get a more happier workforce. but since NWA doesnt have any guts to do that they might as well figure out how to survive ch 11
 
Most of us on this board realize that you are a part of mgmt making the big bucks while the rest of us are trying to figure out if we should pay the food or the bills. mgmt needs to have huge paycuts in order to get a more happier workforce. but since NWA doesnt have any guts to do that they might as well figure out how to survive ch 11
Mgmt has already taken a 15-25% progressive paycut over the last two years, and has reduced in numbers by about a third.

I find it hard to believe that in the most prosperous nation on earth, in a robust economy, most poeple on this board can't make enough money to buy food and pay the bills. If you are truly in that position, than that is a testament to your own lack of drive and intellect. You must be a card carrying member of the "victim mentality" club. Take life by the sack and create your own worth rather than running crying to your union for help.
 
Take life by the sack and create your own worth rather than running crying to your union for help.
Unfortunately this is the mentality of the vast majority carrying the cardboard sign. They don't know what the "sack" is.


Maybe the union could pass out some tissues :up:
 
4) When the $298M came due, NWA could not make that payout due to the financial situation NWA was in. Preferred stock, (which is what this stock was made up of) can not be repurchased when there are no profits. Obviously that sucks for those that held on to those stocks until recently, but NWA can't shirk it's fiduciary responsibility just to be nice.

A lot of employees would have been more accepting of the situation if NW had been upfront and said why they wouldn't/couldn't pay instead of claiming it was due to the law(s) in Delaware, where they're incorporated (ironically, the only state in the union where the Red Tail or it's airlink partners don't fly).
 
Unfortunately this is the mentality of the vast majority carrying the cardboard sign. They don't know what the "sack" is.
Maybe the union could pass out some tissues :up:
Yeah boredope, they are the ones who, unlike yourself tough guy, refused to grovel and bootlick at the feet of your master.

Like I told 'Cods, take your panty clad raisin "sack" out to the strikers and tell them face to face how proud you are to be a scab.

Don't be a coward POS all your life. :down:
 
Mgmt has already taken a 15-25% progressive paycut over the last two years, and has reduced in numbers by about a third.

I find it hard to believe that in the most prosperous nation on earth, in a robust economy, most poeple on this board can't make enough money to buy food and pay the bills. If you are truly in that position, than that is a testament to your own lack of drive and intellect. You must be a card carrying member of the "victim mentality" club. Take life by the sack and create your own worth rather than running crying to your union for help.
if that is the case, then why is it that the crooks running NWA are still making triple digits if not more? at least those beasts can make a living whilst the employees are suffering. And no I am not in that position where I chose one or the other. but there are many people like that. If mgmt would reduce their pay to below the levels of AA JB CO etc then there could be a real chance at survival of NWA but as long as conehead neil is there not much hope is left
 
W-T-F over?? Don't be such an imbecile man!!

I guess the fact that NWA has orchestrated this strike should be overlooked and non pertinent <_< ???

Let me refresh your short memory.....18 months prior to this job action by the HONORABLE AMT's at NWA, the COMPANY was training replacement workers (LOWLIFE-SCABS) for one reason only. To BUST the AMFA. The cost was upwards of $100 Million dollars to do just that :shock: !!! That's an airline that is supposedly strapped for cash eh????

...
WHY, YES. I BELIEVE THEY ARE...LAST OFFER I GOT FROM THEM WAS FOR 160 GRAND FOR A YEAR IN THE SANDBOX

**Moderator Note: Please refrain from quoting a lengthy post. It just makes it easier for everyone to read follow-on posts. Thank you.**
P.S.: Ease off with the CAPS as well please. You can always hit the CAPS Lock button when you have to use Merlin again. Thank you.
 
How DARE YOU CALL me a COMMUNIST. I am a registered DEMOCRAT. You are the communist. Clinto is the one who got the economy going. And he handed this current admin a surplus which was huge and all this joker of a clown did was turned it into the biggest deficit the country has had and into a war in which we dont belong. So dont you ever ever call me a communist
IF I REMEMBER MY OLD CIVICS LESSONS, THE DEMS PREFERED BIGGER GOVT, THE REPUBS FAVORED FREE ENTERPRISE WITH LIMITED GOVT. THIS WOULD PUT THE DEMS MORE IN FAVOR OF A SOCIALIST TYPE GOVT. AS ANY ONE SHOULD KNOW, COMMUNISM IN ITS TRUE FORM CANNOT BE SUSTAINED. SOCIALISM IS THE CLOSEST THING, AND THE RECORD FOR A SOCIALIST STYLE GOVT STANDS AT ABOUT 70 YEARS IN THE FORMER USSR
 
1) Knowing what it knows today, do you think AMFA would have voted to save 2700 mechanic jobs and take a 25% pay cut? If the answer is yes, then obviously NWA bargained in good faith. (good faith doesn't mean you shoot yourself in the head by offering something that will lead to your own demise)

No, I do not think they would have. The NWA proposal was designed to be a 'poison pill' that they knew the AMFA membership would reject, specifically because they weren't bargaining in good faith. The fact that they began to prepare for training their scabs six months before negotiations began makes that clear.
 
finman: you are part of that crooked a** mgmt that will never ever understand the pain that you and the cronies you work with have out these fine hard working employees thru. that is all due to you and the entire NWA mgmt ignorance and incomptenece. you hired the worst cfo neil conehead from USAIR and now it is a matter of time before the IAM AFA and ALPA are nailed worse and/or harder than the AMFA. If you and the cronies terminate their pensions I would only hope that you and your cronies go to hell for destroying those fine hard working employees who are/were trying to make a living
 
finman,
I realize that your hatred for NWA is not going to be swayed by anything, as you will certainly just come up with some off-the-wall example of something that NWA was alleged of doing to justify your position that NWA's attempt to become a profitable airline are somehow shrouded in evil intent. Someone with more time (and insight) than myself could lay out the entire business justification behind every decision and you'd still just keep repeating the rhetoric that you've committed yourself to.

A business in peril has to make unpopular decisions, that's just a fact of life. It's easy to sit back and hurl insults and accusations at the people making those decisions, but the question remains, what would you do in contrast to make NWA profitable? This board is supposed to be the informative exchange of ideas, not just a sounding board for "gotcha" obscure newspaper clips and bumper sticker one liners. If labor costs are the only cost that have not been aggressivily managed to date, and the company is still losing money, then there is really no option left but to bring those down to current market levels. It sucks for everyone, but the alternative is no airline at all, and most reasonable people would choose the former.



NWA mangement IS evil. NWA was loosing money? OH, that's right. Labor was the problem. So they force their AMTs to strike, hire a bunch of low life SCABS and pay them dirt. Why no profit afterwards?

Face it, reality is that the people "running" NWA will NOT loose benefits. They will NOT feel the effects of their mismanagement. It will only be the working men and women of NWA that will feel the well lubricated, rounded head of concessions. It will only be the working men and women of NWA that will see careers that they spent 20+ years at disappear.

Your defense of NWA management simply shows that you are indeed one of these greedy, self serving people, or worse, a suckass coward willing to whore themselves for that last bit of Mother's Milk from the diseased teat of evil.

You DO NOT treat your labor force, like the way NWA AMTs were treated & continue to be treated, in order to be "profitable".

Stand tall NWA AMTs. Do NOT listen to management cowards like finman. You did nothing wrong. You have decided to fight for simply what is right. You are not alone.

GO AMFA!
 
Their total cash outflow was greater than their net loss.
 

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