Obama's War on Women

[eolesen]

Democrat Senate Campaign Committee pays women less than men...

http://washingtonexaminer.com/snap-top-senate-dem-group-pays-women-70-cents-per-1-for-men/article/2547048

There was a similar discussion about the White House having a similar phenomena.

The phrase "eat your own dogfood" comes to mind when I hear all the hand wringing over pay disparity being a GOP driven issue. The fact is that the statistics can and will be manipulated to fit whoever wants to make an issue over it.

I've come to the realisation that the only real advantage Democrats have in appealing to women and minorities is their ability spin stories and tell better lies.

 

[Ms Tree]

The one thing I find suspicious about the article (and others I have read) is that they do not list the actual jobs and salaries.  There are two ways to read this.  The DNC and RNC are actually paying women and men in the same position different salaries (I doubt it) or there are more men in higher paying jobs than there are women in higher paying jobs (more likely in my opinion).  Either is still bad but the former is far worse in my opinion.  I'm willing to bet both sides are paying women the same amount as men for the same job.  Just a guess on my part though.
 
Eolesen, have you found anything that actually lists the people, job title and salary? 

 

[eolesen]

Yep. There was a summary of salaries in the White House annual report done some time ago that listed name and position.

When people had the same title, the men were paid more, on average $5000/year more. 

Chiodo, Theodore A. $65,000.00 ASSISTANT STAFF SECRETARY
Hurley, Caitlin G. $60,000.00 ASSISTANT STAFF SECRETARY
Sibley, Sarah E. $60,000.00 ASSISTANT STAFF SECRETARY[/color]

Neiman, Wanda M. $74,958.00 ASSISTANT TO THE EXECUTIVE CLERK
Williams, Sherman A. $77,040.00 ASSISTANT TO THE EXECUTIVE CLERK

Baskerville, Mary E. $45,000.00 ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR AND TRAVEL MANAGER
Quinn, Brian P. $47,000.00 ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR AND TRAVEL MANAGER
Randle, Cole A. $45,000.00 ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR AND TRAVEL MANAGER

Gardaphe, Frederico C. $75,000.00 DEPUTY DIRECTOR
Olmos, Margaret C. $70,000.00 DEPUTY DIRECTOR

There's no indication of the experience level or seniority of any of those people, but on the surface, equal pay for equal work doesn't seem to apply.

But that's just at the surface. And that's the fatal flaw with any of these silly arguments over pay.

 

[Ms Tree]

How long ago was this list compiled? Is there anything current to see if the discrepancies have been addressed? Sexism is alive and well. I think it will take quite some time before race and gender is no longer a factor in the work place.

 

[eolesen]

The list was based on the 2011 White House Annual Report, which was released in 2012.

Lilly Ledbetter was made law in 2009, the first piece of legislation signed by Obama. Clearly, he had the power to give his own staff pay parity....

 

[eolesen]

It's updated annually, so feel free to peruse for yourself. I checked a few of the names, and they've seen raises, but it's still less clear if those were standard COLA raises up to a max, raises due to seniority steps, or because someone felt guilty for being caught not eating their own dog food 18 months ago...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/disclosures/annual-records/2013

The bigger question this list generates is why there are so many people on the White House staff earning in excess of $100,000 per year...

 

[Ms Tree]

I did some digging while I am waiting for some things and found this.
 
Its the 2013 annual report to Congress on White House salaries.  I just looked for identical titles in the right hand column, compared names and salaries.  Not official by any means but I did not see any discrepancies as mentioned in your post.
 
#23 and #24, same salary.
#54 and #55, same
#64 and $65, female makes more
#115 and #118 female makes more.
 
Report
 
I stopped there.  As you indicated, experience is not specified but I do not think that makes the conversation moot.  If you run into something such as you post where women are consistently paid less than their male counterparts. this far into the 21st century I think the question needs to be asked why are women paid less and if experience is the excuse, then why are capable women not being given the opportunity to gain the experience as men?  The men were not born experienced.  They had to work for it.

 

[eolesen]

The 2011 report got a fair degree of attention, so I wouldn't rule out the Administration correcting itself to save face.

I disagree with you that women are consciously being denied opportunities to get experience or climb the ladder.

If anything, it seems they get more of a pass when they decide not to chase opportunities or climb.

When a woman decides to stay home and raise kids, or work at a lesser demanding position so that they have the flexibility to be around for their kids, it's no big deal.

If a guy chooses to work part time or stay in a lower demanding position, he's looked down on as a lazy sloth...

 

[Ms Tree]

I think the bias starts in the classrooms and goes on from there, studies have shown that boys are treated differently in class than girls. They get short changed in the class and it just snow balls.  Women are under represented in the sciences and a psychology postdoc at Yale University put together a rather simple study to show how the gender bias still exists.  This site also refers to the common gender bias we have in terms of the woman being the mother/home care verses the men being the bread winner. 
 
There are countless other examples but this was the first one that came to mind. 
 
I think the issue of whether it is conscious or sub conscious is relevant only so far as determining how to address it..  It still happens.
 
Just thought of something else.  This is just personal experience but when I was a Cust Svcs Sup for AA I very rarely got into confrontations with men or women.  I was as much of a hard ass as any of my co-workers.  I very rarely had to escalate calls to my 'senior' co-workers for resolution.  This was the case with most if not all of my male coworkers.  The female coworkers were constantly having arguments and being questioned.  The had to escalate far more calls.  I would tell the customer the exact same thing my female coworker told them and they would accept my decision.  The consistency of the behavior is too much for me to discount as mere coincidence.

 

[Ms Tree]

The 2011 report got a fair degree of attention, so I wouldn't rule out the Administration correcting itself to save face.

I disagree with you that women are consciously being denied opportunities to get experience or climb the ladder.

If anything, it seems they get more of a pass when they decide not to chase opportunities or climb.

When a woman decides to stay home and raise kids, or work at a lesser demanding position so that they have the flexibility to be around for their kids, it's no big deal.

If a guy chooses to work part time or stay in a lower demanding position, he's looked down on as a lazy sloth...

 
Isn't that a good thing?

 

[southwind]

 Sexism is alive and well. I think it will take quite some time before race and gender is no longer a factor in the work place.

Especially against "Old White Guys"!

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yep. There was a summary of salaries in the White House annual report done some time ago that listed name and position.When people had the same title, the men were paid more, on average $5000/year more. There's no indication of the experience level or seniority of any of those people, but on the surface, equal pay for equal work doesn't seem to apply.But that's just at the surface. And that's the fatal flaw with any of these silly arguments over pay.

Since Chairs in the House and Senate are seniority based, it will take a while for the females to catch up as they get elected and stay in office. That is one reason why I am opposed to term limits (seniority rules in congress).

 

[Dog Wonder]

Especially against "Old White Guys"!

If those Old White Guys would make love, not war, with women they wouldn't be so cranky.

 

[Ms Tree]

Especially against "Old White Guys"!

Oh look. A shiny thing. A bit difficult to claim a bias against white males when they are in the majority. Take a look at the leadership of the House. Good luck proving your theory.

 

[Ms Tree]

Since Chairs in the House and Senate are seniority based, it will take a while for the females to catch up as they get elected and stay in office. That is one reason why I am opposed to term limits (seniority rules in congress).

Of course they could change the rules and put the most qualified person in charge but that would make to much sense.