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Our turn to strike, and we must prepare.

There are fewer and fewer idealists and true believers like Bob left anymore.

Talking about striking when there's 10% national unemployment is laughable, and the company knows it. The union can't afford a strike fund, and there aren't a lot of jobs out there for replacement income. For every one guy who gets that high paying utility company job, there are a couple who didn't get called for the interview. And some of those who left are already out of work again -- guys who took jobs in the engine shops with BNSF and UPRR are next to go, now that there are several hundred locomotives fleet is sitting idled on storage tracks...

Granted, with foreclosures as backed up as they are right now, you probably won't lose your house right away, but the auto finance guys aren't wasting any time on repo's.

And credit card companies have been lowering credit limits pretty consistently over the past year, so good luck thinking you can live off those to pay for groceries and gas for more than a couple weeks...

That's not fear -- it's what's happening to some of your neighbors.


<_< ------- And TPG is doing this all "out of the goodness of their heart!!!" -----RIGHT!!? 😉

Nope. They're doing it for the future return on investment, and TPG apparently sees potential from investing in airlines which have a good franchise value... When JAL turns the corner, TPG will get their money back and then some.

Most of the time, that strategy has worked out quite well for TPG; the 10% of the time it doesn't is more than offset by what they've gained from the other 90% of their investments.
 
I cannot help but remnded of the NWA/AMFA Mechanics thinking they couldn't be replaced, only to watch 1000+ A&P Licensed AMT's cross a union picket line and bust the only union trying to advance the profession. Unless we are guaranteed of disruptive support or sympathy strikes from the other unions on the property a strike by AMT's at AA will fail also.

Now maybe some of you believe the old line about AMFA isolated themsleves from the rest of labor and that the TWU will fair better in a strike. My opinion still remains that the cooling off period will come soon and the TWU will agree to binding arbitration.
 
That's not fear -- it's what's happening to some of your neighbors.

Yes, unless they are AMR executives. The company keeps reminding us how lucky we are to have jobs and want a zero cost contract, which is MBA talk for more concessions. But fear not, the big boys and girls up top will continue to share the gains. That too is a stark reality of class warfare.
I am an advocate for not striking, rather stay on the job and show the passengers how happy we are. Strikes don't work. I realize the passengers could care less about our plight, so they shouldnt mind an increase in delays and cancellations.

Just wait for a Presidential Emergency Board to be assigned and I'll take my chances with under binding arbitration. AND I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE RESULT WILL BE BECAUSE OF MY SENIORITY, THEY WILL HAVE TO SHUT DOWN AA TO GET TO ME...
This way, Arpey and Co. will have their dirty laundry aired just like the auto executives and now soon the insurance executives. And let the boy wonder explain how he and his executives shared the pain as well.
We are reminding here about the 10% unemployment rate and how lucky we are to be employed, but AA's share of the JAL offer would still be a few hundred million, but don't worry he and his spin doctors will tell us how important JAL will be to us.

No, No, no strike.....stay on the job and do your job and make sure those passengers know just how happy you are.
 
Everybody has an excuse.... Thats what I figured.


Do you truly believe the TWU will ever allow a strike? Do you think the governemt will allow it?

This place should have come to a standstill when we first took concessions. They want more and I will be willing to bet that with the help of the TWU, we are going to be force fed another industry leading concession contract.
They want our pension, retiree medical and OSMs on the line. And still the workforce doesnt respond.
 
Do you truly believe the TWU will ever allow a strike? Do you think the governemt will allow it?

This place should have come to a standstill when we first took concessions. They want more and I will be willing to bet that with the help of the TWU, we are going to be force fed another industry leading concession contract.
They want our pension, retiree medical and OSMs on the line. And still the workforce doesnt respond.

Working Together
Best Workers in the World
An Injustice to one is an Injustice to All
Will Strike if provoked
Together We Stand Divided we Beg
I am the Union
TWU 60 Years Strong
Triumph With Unity
TWU - Americans Real Strength
Right to Work is Wrong
A Future Worth Fighting For


I am sure I have left out some TWU slogans. But that is about the best reponse to more concessions you will observe
 
What Eoleson and many others forget is that just because there's a bad economy it doesnt mean that workers must settle for whatever the boss feels like handing out. The Great Depression saw a huge increase in the frequency and intensity of strikes. Thats even before Unions were legalized under the Wagner Act. The government and their corporate handlers realized that Capitalism itself was at risk and individual Capitalists were leading the system to its own destruction. In the early part of the Depression the Communist Party was the fastest growng party in the country. Even though they only won one national seat it set off alarm bells. The Democrats, under the leadership of FDR employed the same strategy to crush the rise of the Communists as his predecessor Teddy Roosesvelt used to defeat William Jennings Bryan. He took what was popular from the opponents platform and adopted it to his own. The point is that a bad economy doesnt give the exploiters a blank check in the face of organized resistance to that exploitation. You have to remember that with even 10% unemployment, 90% arent unemployed and most of them have seen some sort of degredation in working conditions as well.

Eoleson tries to use the FEAR card, insinuating that you will lose your home if you fight back. I say you will lose it if you dont. If you are just getting by now and inflation, fees, surcharges, medical copays and the deductions for Medical continue to go up, which they will, you will eventually lose your home anyway, but only after you already used up all your home equity trying to survive and spent most of your life providing loyal service and working OT to the company and were rewarded with a futile attempt to keep your head above water. Sure it may not happen now, (like Eolseson said the Banks have enough forclosures to worry about now anyway), but like in the 90s, we will be stuck in a recession while the rest of the country is enjoying a recovery.

Informer brings up the 1000+ scabs at NWA. Well that was then, that was there. This is now this is here.
- NWA was a much smaller operation than AA, the bigger the workforce the harder it is to replace in a strike.
-NWA knew that they would have the co-operation of other unions on the property and they were all willing to go along with the paycuts as well. The defeat of AMFA at NWA was a coordinated effort between the company and the other unions on the property. Yet another stain on the history of the US labor movement.
-At AA, the other unions are fed up as well. Its not likely that they would cooperate with AA management to break another union. Unlike NWA these people are looking for just compensation as well.
-If the TWU went out AA wouldnt have to just scrape up a 1000 mechanics,(they would need more than double that to maintain line operations) they would also have to scrape up stock clerks, fleet service clerks, dispatchers and other critcal workers as well.
-AA's current line maintenance management team is made up of a lot of outsiders (with the relacement of Carmine Romano it goes from top to bottom now)with little real experience so they cant be counted on to keep the operation going either, even if they found scabs. Most of the old timers who did come up through the company never worked a 777 and had limited experience on the 757s. The head of ORD only had 5 months on the floor as a mechanic. We now have supervisors and managers who have ZERO experience as a mechanic at AA or on our equipment. That wasnt the case at NWA.
-You also have to remember that NWA started preparing a year ahead of time and they never really recovered, now Delta owns them
-NWA scrapped the barrel Dry. Even though the airlines continue to reduce capacity vendors are reporting that they are having difficulty getting mechanics despite raising their rates. Most of the A&P schoools closed their doors so there isnt a new supply out there either. Hundreds of thousands of A&Ps out there work in other industries where the pay and conditions are better. They arent sitting around waiting to work nights, weekends and Holidays for the airlines. Even those in General, corporate or manufacturing arent looking at the airlines anymore.
-If there were plenty of mechanics out there AA would have offered the VBR to the line. By throwing out the bait of a VBR they kept these guys on the hook, while also discouraging them from burning off their sick time.They admitted that they could not afford to let those guys go.
-Despite the bad economy we have mechanics quitting across the system, even though the number is small the trend is unprecidented. As the economy recovers it would be reasonable to expect this trend to increase dramatically. In my 30 years I've never seen anything like it, guys who have good seniority and a broad selection of shifts to pick from walking in and quitting. I saw where the company had 300 names on a recall list and went through the whole thing to only get a handful of guys. One of those who came back told me it was a hard decision but he just liked working on planes, he said "Get the money, even if it means I get laid off again because at least I'll know when I come back and do what I love I'll make good money doing it". He knew that he wouldnt have much trouble replacing his current wage on the outside, even with a so called bad economy.

A strike is a means of last resort, but you had better become focused on preparing for one. Hopeful is right about doing what you can outsde of a strike but its foolish to not prepare for one. Lets not forget that the Pilots and FAs are in mediation as well. Either one of them could bring the company into a strike whether we prepare for it or not. Unlike us , who have never seen a strike, both groups struck in the 1990s, they know the risks but they also know they can win, and if the pilots go the company will cease operations for the duration, possibly (very small) permanently and only keep a handful of mechanics to keep the planes airworthy(till they are brought to the desert). So thats another thing to keep in mind as you think that working for less provides you with a secure job, there are so many variables out of your control that job security is a myth, theres only one path to security, accumulate wealth, and the way you do that is by getting as much money out of the company as you can and saving/investing it, like everyone except as the workers are doing.

Remember the company's plans in 1997?

Pilots wages have deteriorated significantly since 1997. If the company couldnt replace them then they couldnt replace them now, not only that but the pilot intructors are TWU as well. So are the Sim Techs.

There is no safety in concessions and poverty. Even if you agree to work for nothing it doesnt mean that the Pilots and Flight Attendants will, or should. AA has seen huge increases in revenue over the six years while we gave up huge concessions in compensation and saw our numbers diminish by over 30%. As a result the other parties in the industry have had a feast. Jacking up prices in some cases in multiples instead of just percentages. Its time we get ours and we shouldnt expect that anybody is just going to give us what we expect and deserve without a fight. The last six years is proof that no matter what we give up it will never be enough and no matter how much money this company takes in they will never want to share it with us.
 
Bob, I didn't know you were writing for the Onion...

"WASHINGTON—In what is being touted by the Labor Department as extremely positive news, the nation's available labor rate has reached double digits for the first time in 26 years, bringing the total number of potentially employable Americans to an impressive 15.7 million."

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/labor...able_labor_rate

Labor-Department-chart2-45-49-R.jpg
 
Bob, I didn't know you were writing for the Onion...

"WASHINGTON—In what is being touted by the Labor Department as extremely positive news, the nation's available labor rate has reached double digits for the first time in 26 years, bringing the total number of potentially employable Americans to an impressive 15.7 million."

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/labor...able_labor_rate

Labor-Department-chart2-45-49-R.jpg
And how many of them know what to look at on a 777 ETOPS check? Or how to even change a tire on one?. Or how many would move to New York or LAX to try and learn for what the airlines are offering. How many know how to fly one, or dispatch one? The fact is that airlines already flushed their workforce, they did it before the recession started, the workers moved on to other jobs, most matching or exceeding what they were making in the airlines after years of service to the airline.

According to Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI) statistics, 13.7 million people were arrested in 2002 for criminal infractions.3 Nearly 925,000 Americans were convicted of felony offenses in the nation’s courts in the most recent year for which data is available, and some 600,000 were incarcerated as a result.4 Nearly 6.9 million adult men and women were either incarcerated or on probation or parole by the end of 2003.5

With over thirteen million ex-felons—6.5 percent of the entire adult population6— “America has become a nation of ex-cons.â€￾7 The federal Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) predicts that “f rates of first incarceration and mortality in 2001 remain unchanged, nearly 1 in 15 persons born in 2001 will go to State or Federal prison during their lifetimes.â€￾8



In order to work on the airport or be a mechanic or Pilot you cant be a felon. Its a fact that felons have a hard time finding employment and are more likely to be unemployed, even in good times. If one in fifteen American are felons, and one in 10 are unemployed then its reasonable to conclude that a large percentage of that one in 10 are felons.
 
In order to work on the airport or be a mechanic or Pilot you cant be a felon.

No, you can't have been convicted of a disqualifying felony in the past 10 years:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/VII/A/III/449/II/44936

So a conviction prior to December, 1999 does not disqualify someone from working at the airport or as a mechanic or ramper or pilot. Additionally, plenty of ex-felons were convicted of non-disqualifying offences, like felony drunk driving. In some states, the second or third DUI is a felony.

How many of the "more than 13 million ex-felons" in the stats you provided were last convicted more than 10 years ago?

Its a fact that felons have a hard time finding employment and are more likely to be unemployed, even in good times.

Completely agree. One of our schools' (and society at large's) biggest failures has been to get through to young people the everlasting consequences of a felony conviction.

If one in fifteen American are felons, and one in 10 are unemployed then its reasonable to conclude that a large percentage of that one in 10 are felons.

Not necessarily, but it's impossible to know without a lot of research. The "unemployed" counted in the federal unemployment statistics include only those people who are part of the labor force and looking for work. It's quite likely that a fair number of ex-cons aren't even looking for work, and thus are not counted as "unemployed" by the BLS.

When unemployment numbers fell dramatically during President Reagan's terms, the skeptics (Reagan-hating Democrats, mostly) countered that the "real" unemployment rate was much higher because of all the discouraged workers who had stopped looking for work and thus were no longer counted as "unemployed," making the official unemployment rate look artificially rosier. Lately I've heard (probably from Obama-hating Republicans - go figure) that today's real unemployment rate is more like 15% to 17% (or higher) and not the "good news" 10% we heard the other day. My guess is that many of the ex-cons are in that non-counted group.

That said, I harbor no illusions that AA would be able to find and train sufficient mechanics to replace several thousand mechanics in the event of a strike.
 
-NWA scrapped the barrel Dry. Even though the airlines continue to reduce capacity vendors are reporting that they are having difficulty getting mechanics despite raising their rates. Most of the A&P schoools closed their doors so there isnt a new supply out there either. Hundreds of thousands of A&Ps out there work in other industries where the pay and conditions are better. They arent sitting around waiting to work nights, weekends and Holidays for the airlines. Even those in General, corporate or manufacturing arent looking at the airlines anymore.
-If there were plenty of mechanics out there AA would have offered the VBR to the line. By throwing out the bait of a VBR they kept these guys on the hook, while also discouraging them from burning off their sick time.They admitted that they could not afford to let those guys go.
-Despite the bad economy we have mechanics quitting across the system, even though the number is small the trend is unprecidented. As the economy recovers it would be reasonable to expect this trend to increase dramatically. In my 30 years I've never seen anything like it, guys who have good seniority and a broad selection of shifts to pick from walking in and quitting. I saw where the company had 300 names on a recall list and went through the whole thing to only get a handful of guys. One of those who came back told me it was a hard decision but he just liked working on planes, he said "Get the money, even if it means I get laid off again because at least I'll know when I come back and do what I love I'll make good money doing it". He knew that he wouldnt have much trouble replacing his current wage on the outside, even with a so called bad economy.
You correct Bob. You can start over in another industry as a trainee for almost double over the starting wage that AA offers and achieve full rate in half the time with better hours and benefits. As for NWA, I received several mailings after I was laid off offering contract employment for a major airline. They did scrap the bottom of the barrel to get these guys to work for them. They sold the whole industry out.
 
This is over,do not expect anything,period.Binding Arb for all 3 unions ,and a close vote end of September 2010 end of story.Nobody whats to lose a dime right now,pilots,F/A's ramp,AMT's nobody is willing to go in debt for a strike for one week let alone a month.Everybody love's overtime right now,and has accepted OT for pay increase.Hint "to pilots work more hours for pay".President will step in.Clinton did it.In the end will order binding arb period,Dem's are like Rep's,only wear a different color suit.AA has radar-focus on 3 things 1)JAL, part ownership 2)British Airways merger,3)One World airline,4)American Eagle sale down the road.Company I bet will report a 1.0 billion dallor lost for the FY 2009.
 
No, you can't have been convicted of a disqualifying felony in the past 10 years:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/49/VII/A/III/449/II/44936

So a conviction prior to December, 1999 does not disqualify someone from working at the airport or as a mechanic or ramper or pilot. Additionally, plenty of ex-felons were convicted of non-disqualifying offences, like felony drunk driving. In some states, the second or third DUI is a felony.


WRONG on the 10 year back round check. That is what they say. I know fellow employees that had their ID process held up for infractions they had over 10 years. One guy had an issue when he was 16. His case was never sent to a judge. It was dropped. 30 years later it pops up and he had to go back to the judge (Died several years back) and had to go through all kinds of legal crap to try to get it removed totally from his record. I remember talking to him about it. He went through hell and back. All for some juvenile fight he had in a school yard with another student. So that 10 year check is a joke. Good PR is all. Just think of all the legal aliens in this country who have less than 10 years in this country. What do you do if you can not go back 10 years? You just pass them through the system. They could have been felons in their country and not even know it. These people work on the secure side of the ramp next to a person who gets scrutinized on his lifetime back round check for a school yard fight.
 
People want to say a strike could never happen because of this reason or that one, they want to blame their situation on this organization or that one. When do we become accountable for ourselves? Whether a strike happens or not, people should be ready, they should have the mindset to walk and be prepared financially and mentally. Instead, they have the mindset to scab, or that the union won’t do it, or that the president will step in. It makes me ill. Anyone ever hear of posturing. You have to be able to talk the talk and walk the walk. But instead, we have the whiners, they want to blame their situation on everyone else but themselves. Man Up people!

Then the company posters come in here and spin the conversation, crank up the fear machine. It’s their job, what they get paid to do. Everyone knows if their moving their lips their lying.

Ehh, never mind, I’ll go out and get me a 40k truck on credit, position myself with zero savings and a bunch of maxed out credit cards, and 401k loans, and a mortgage and house so big, I'll be paying for decades. This way I could never walk if called upon. I’ll whine about the democrats and big government and then pray they step in. Moan about the union because I can. Complain about the company and their tactics, hurry up and get my B check done so I can get online , watch TV or get down. My one contribution to the cause will be to come on this board and moan about it all.

What a great plan.
 

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