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PHX to LHR non stop

Kirby is one stupid executive. From the story linked above:

If anything, Kirby said, Phoenix could gain international flights. The combined airline would like to immediately fly between Phoenix and London, a route currently served only by British Airways. US Airways does not have the right planes or London airport slots for the service, but American brings both to the table, he said.

AA already has PHX to LHR covered, you moron (Kirby). I realize that US management probably doesn't have much experience in immunized joint ventures (since LH and UA refuse to admit US to its party) but AA and BA share profits on the AA/BA flights across the Atlantic, and PHX is part of that joint venture. AA metal from PHX to LHR would happen only if BA agreed that was a good idea.
 
Kirby is one stupid executive. From the story linked above:



AA already has PHX to LHR covered, you moron (Kirby). I realize that US management probably doesn't have much experience in immunized joint ventures (since LH and UA refuse to admit US to its party) but AA and BA share profits on the AA/BA flights across the Atlantic, and PHX is part of that joint venture. AA metal from PHX to LHR would happen only if BA agreed that was a good idea.

we don't agree on much but Kirby is one thing we do
 
I don't agree with this criticism. Simply because you have a JV doesn't mean you don't operate international flights, especially from a specific carrier's hub. By your arguments, AA should stop flying to LHR from LAX, ORD, JFK, MIA, etc. and simply rely on BA. That will never happen.

That said, I don't see adding PHX-LHR as being high on the priority list, even though BA is able to fill a 6x/week 744.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't US do some FRA flying out of their hubs along with their Star partner LH?
I'm not sure how all of that works, but I know that AF handed off some of their CDG flying to Delta out of certain cities.
 
US flies from PHL and CLT to FRA.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't US do some FRA flying out of their hubs along with their Star partner LH?

US flies to the Star hubs like FRA and MUC (and others) but because LH and UA have not invited US to participate in the joint venture, US must (by law) compete with LH and UA across the Atlantic.

I'm not sure how all of that works, but I know that AF handed off some of their CDG flying to Delta out of certain cities.
That's because DL + AF/KL have an immunized joint venture, just like LH/UA and AA/BA. So those alliance partners don't have to compete against each other - they get to coordinate schedules, agree on fares, allocate capacity and other anticompetitive behaviours that would be antitrust violations if they didn't have immunity to cooperate. US, on the other hand, doesn't share revenues with any partners nor can US coordinate schedules, etc.

Sure, AA could add another flight between PHX and LHR, but that assumes that BA/AA actually WANT to fly an additional flight. Could be that they've already determined that the six 744s per week are adequate. Another daily flight with AA metal would just cause yields to plummet. Better for the financial health of AA/BA to fly the one frequency.

Like I said earlier, Kirby probably doesn't realize that, and with zero experience with antitrust immunity, it's not really his fault.
 
I'm certain Kirby understands how the JVs work. US has been in discussions to join the Star JV but, as of yet, no agreement has been reached.
 
The current LHR-PHX flown by BA has very few connecting passengers when it arrives in PHX, it is almost entirely local. Were that hub to be plugged into OneWorld I would think the potential for connecting traffic might justify another daily flight on that route. That way they could share the work and share the revenue. Seems viable. I know I'd like to see it.
 
The current LHR-PHX flown by BA has very few connecting passengers when it arrives in PHX, it is almost entirely local. Were that hub to be plugged into OneWorld I would think the potential for connecting traffic might justify another daily flight on that route. That way they could share the work and share the revenue. Seems viable. I know I'd like to see it.

Generally, connecting passengers aren't willing to pay as much as nonstop passengers. The BA/AA joint venture is already capturing everyone who wants to fly to LHR from PHX nonstop and vv, since no other airline bothers to fly it.

The question becomes - from where are these connecting passengers (that you mentioned) originating? If they're starting in TUS, AA already connects them via DFW and the four daily LHR flights. ABQ? Same story. There may be some US spokes from PHX that AA doesn't already serve via LAX or DFW or ORD, but I don't see very many.

US doesn't even fly to LHR from the mega-hub at CLT and flies just one daily flight from PHL. With six weekly 744s on BA, I don't see PHX being underserved. Perhaps some smaller spokes are feeding UA at DEN or SFO or ORD (and not sharing the profits or revenue with US) and those passengers will be captured by AA/BA once the merger occurs.

Bottom line: A lot of people in PHX are worried that Parker's eventual takeover of AA leaves PHX in roughly the same boat as the people in STL and Kirby's trying to assuage their fears by touting all the new International flights that he'll be able to start by using AA's slots and aircraft (as if AA/BA aren't already maximizing the value of their slots and aircraft).
 
I don't agree with this criticism. Simply because you have a JV doesn't mean you don't operate international flights, especially from a specific carrier's hub. By your arguments, AA should stop flying to LHR from LAX, ORD, JFK, MIA, etc. and simply rely on BA. That will never happen.

That's not behind my criticism of Kirby. His comment makes it sound like AA doesn't already serve PHX, and that's false.

Of course AA metal will continue to fly on the routes across the Atlantic despite the joint venture with BA/IB. Part of the reason is that the joint business agreement allocates the revenues (and hopefully profits) by complex formulas, and the more metal flown by AA, the more money it gets under the agreement. The pilots at AA feared ATI because they (mistakenly) believed that AA would stop flying TATL flights and outsource all flying to BA/IB. AA has actually increased its own metal flights to London and Madrid since the ATI was granted. This summer, AA metal flew a record 19 daily flights to LHR from BOS, JFK, RDU, MIA, ORD, DFW and LAX. Joint venture partner BA flew about 40 additional flights from its various gateways. Combined, AA/BA flew about 61 daily flights to London from 20 USA gatway cities.

BA has a long history of serving PHX and presumably, it has matched capacity with demand, so a merger between US and AA won't suddenly mean any increased demand for PHX-LHR. So there's no need for an additional frequency.

That said, I don't see adding PHX-LHR as being high on the priority list, even though BA is able to fill a 6x/week 744.
Agreed. Like I said, AA/BA already serves PHX from LHR. A higher priority might be for CLT's first flight to LHR. If/when US and AA merge, I could see the US PHL slots moved to CLT so that CLT would finally be connected to LHR instead of Gatwick. BA already serves PHL with two daily flights, one on a 767 that could be upguaged to a larger plane.

My criticism of Kirby was the unbridled arrogance in telling people in PHX that US could better allocate AA's 19 LHR slots (and widebody aircraft) in moving a flight to PHX, as if AA and BA haven't already determined the best allocation of London capacity among the 61 daily flights the joint venture operates. Implicit in Kirby's ignorant comments is an assumption that Parker/Kirby know better than BA and AA how to allocate those flights. Imagine that - executives of a Tempe-based airline with exactly one Heathrow flight in its entire network know that PHX is in need of a second daily flight when the joint venture that flies to LHR 61 times a day has determined that the market needs one daily flight. That's a classic wxample of hubris.

I expect the airliners.net crowd to make the kind of statements that Kirby made, but I don't expect them from real airline executives.

What's next? Parker/Kirby will proclaim that PHL, PHX and CLT will soon get flights to China and Tokyo because they're getting ready to take over an airline that operates 777s (capable aircraft, of which US operates none)? Maybe if Philly, Phoenix and Charlotte pony up really big subsidies will those flights takeoff.
 
All of your points are valid, yet with all of AA's strategy they fail to be a profitable airline. This has nothing specific to do with PHX, but more so the way AA utilizes their system and A/C. Out of all the scenarios you mentioned, PHL could most likely support almost any international destinations.
 
All of your points are valid, yet with all of AA's strategy they fail to be a profitable airline.

If US had been saddled with AA's costs for the last 7 years, it'd be lucky to only be in bankruptcy for the 3rd (4th?) time. Conversely, if AA had enjoyed US' costs, it'd have been the most profitable carrier in the industry most of the last 7 years.

Parker is basically gonna blow the supposed synergies (if not more) on higher labor cost. You better hope that he doesn't put a merged US/AA back in bankruptcy.

Jim
 

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