Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

[Flyz4food]

No....The difference is now there is a level playing field!

How do you figure?

 

[EastUS]

You are, and 56000 pilots know it and recognize it.

Wow! Who knew!? Nuts!...That means that ALL the guys I know from other airlines, that are far senior in experience and years to anyone at AWA, all must be lying then....sigh....and to think I've know some of them for much longer than AWA's even existed... and yet, all commercial pilots actually side with Leo and AWA...crushing news. You just never know who to trust anymore it seems. 🙄

 

[EastUS]

Another non sequitur from East.

Jetz points out that you could have recalled these bozos at any time and you say that is a lie and counter with a completely unrelated item, the trusteeship of the PHL council.

What has the one to do with the other?

Please explain why a recall was not possible?

If you're entirely ignorant as to the events that occurred via the obliteration of the PHL council...magically just "moments" before the re-blessing.."election" of the MEC was to take place, and are equally ignorant of what was actually going on out here with recall attempts against CLT..then, no additional clues will ever serve to enlighten you as to what was actually possble within Alpo, versus what you fantasize.

"Can you take responsibility for anything at all?" A lot more than you've likely ever taken in your life I'd honestly guess, but rant on and patronize away like a yapping little puppy if it suits you. All are well used to that sort of adolescant nonsense from your side in any case.

PS: You'll note that, given that we couldn't get anything done reasonably under/within Alpo, and zero usefull cooperation with them was possible, (given that Alpo Notional simply did whatever it wanted in any case) that we did then recall the entire assemblage. Ummm..Do we get any "points" via "taking responsibilty" there? 😉

You have, and are part of a new Union..which was voted in by our combined group, and yet, you flagrantly disregard and refuse to participate in. You chide the east for not being more aggressive within Alpo participation, however utterly distastefull that was for us....yet you intentionally do NOTHING within our new Union whatsoever. Do YOU need a lecture on "taking responsibility"?...

 

[Piedmont1984]

Actually, the new law (amendment for jimntx's sake) only applies to mergers that occur after the effective date so it doesn't apply to the US/HP merger.

Jim

Exactly, so a prospective merger with UAL or AA would fall under the purview of the new law.

 

[EastUS]

You obviously don't understand how this works.

Excepting for the moment the fact that the MDA case is weak and has little chance of success, even if a favorable ruling is obtained the only thing that will be gained is the ability to collect damages from national.

It will have no effect on the arbitration that followed.

On what actual facts do you base ANY of those assertions? Neither you, nor anyone else, can have even the slightest degree of cetainty as to what will transpire in court, or what rulings on any/all issues will be made, much less what the effects will be. You state things as "fact" that you've no possible clue about. Heck..I still marvel about "OJay's not guilty!"..and yet, the west seems chock full of legal soothsayers that fully know the future of any and all courtroom proceedings...about as well as you all knew about the certain Alpo election triumph I'll caustically add.

"You obviously don't understand how this works."

 

[ableoneable]

If you're entirely ignorant as to the events that occurred via the obliteration of the PHL council...magically just "moments" before the re-blessing of the MEC was to take place, and are equally ignorant of what was actually going on out here with recall attempts against CLT..then, no additional clues will ever serve to enlighten you as to what was actually possble within Alpo, versus what you fantasize.

"Can you take responsibility for anything at all?" A lot more than you've likely ever taken in your life I'd honestly guess, but rant on and patronize away like a yapping little puppy if it suits you. All are well used to that sort of adolescant nonsense from your side in any case.

PS: You'll note that, given that we couldn't get anything done reasonably under/within Alpo, and zero usefull cooperation with them was possible, (given that Alpo Notional simply did whatever it wanted in any case) that we did then recall the entire assemblage. Ummm..Do we get any "points" via "taking responsibilty" there? 😉 You have and are part of a new Union..which was voted in by our combined group, and yet, you flagrantly disregard and refuse to participate in. Do you need a lecture on "taking responsibility"?...

Classic EastUs,

You have resorted back to form, calling those who question you "yapping puppies" and asserting that you have taken more responsibility for your life than anyone who dares question you or your motives.

ALPA national took every opportunity to assist your side. I don't genneraly agree with Holly Hedgemen but on this issue she called it correctly. Had Prater presented the list right away and insisted that JNC talks continue we would probably have a contract in place.

However Prater agreed with you. He thought that the Nicolau list was unfair and he took every opportunity to try and force the west to re-negotiate.

As far as the trusteeship of PHL, I agree it was political suicide. Yet ALPA national continued to act stupidly right up to the eve of the election. Two weeks before the vote closed ALPA finance was issuing expulsion notices to west pilots who were behind on their dues.

They were morons, on this we agree.

 

[ableoneable]

On what actual facts do you base ANY of those assertions? Neither you, nor anyone else, can have even the slightest degree of cetainty as to what will transpire in court, or what rulings on any/all issues will be made, much less what the effects will be. You state things as "fact" that you've no possible clue about. Heck..I still marvel about "OJay's not guilty!"..and yet, the west seems chock full of legal soothsayers that fully know the future of any and all courtroom proceedings...about as well as you all knew about the certain Alpo election triumph I'll caustically add.

"You obviously don't understand how this works."

I have been briefed by council, have you?

No one in the west is particularly concerned with the MDA show.

1. The case is weak.

2. Even should the unlikely occur it will have a negligible impact on the current seniority list.

 

[EastUS]

As far as the trusteeship of PHL, I agree it was political suicide. Yet ALPA national continued to act stupidly right op to the eve of the election. Two weeks before the vote closed ALPA finance was issuing expulsion notices to west pilots who were behind on their dues.

They were morons, on this we agree.

"You have resorted back to form, calling those who question you "yapping puppies" and asserting that have taken more responsibility for your life than anyone who dares question you or your motives." Whenever you've the brass to lecture me on "taking responsibilty"..you've fully crossed over into the yapping puppy pen....period. What's your point, if any therein?

"ALPA national took every opportunity to assist your side. I don't genneraly agree with Holly Hedgemen but on this issue she called it correctly. Had Prater presented the list right away and insisted that JNC talks continue we would probably have a contract in place." = Pure fantasy on all counts to my thinking. Imho: No window of opportunity existed within which the east would have ever voted Nic into play.

"However Prater agreed with you. He thought that the Nicolau list was unfair and he took every opportunity to try and force the west to re-negotiate. " And...you folks staunchly held out with "Ho Ho Ho!, St Nic is coming to town!"!"...OK, again..what's your point?..Another example of Alpo ineffectiveness? Prater didn't care in the least. he just sought, unsuccessfully, to avoid open revolt. His actual words after being visited by the east at Herrndon = "Aribitrators, can be arbitrary"...Some real sense of "unfairness" or any actual concern clearly displayed therein...sheesh!

Whatever's in the past...it's time to at least try working things out...if we can at all.

 

[ableoneable]

Amazingly enough..We heard exactly the opposite..not that any devout Alpoids on either side would misrepresent, or simply outtright lie about anything to their constituents 🙄

No matter. If you wish a fully adversarial relationship...OK. It hasn't played out well for you so far, but; the future's always unknown.

Have a good evening.

I replied;

Have you personally talked to anybody who was in the room?

Still waiting for an answer.

 

[EastUS]

I have been briefed by council, have you?

No one in the west is particularly concerned with the MDA show.

1. The case is weak.

2. Even should the unlikely occur it will have a negligible impact on the current seniority list.

You may be proved correct. Equally, you may once more be surprised by events. In any case; Hanging one's future on some/any courtroom outcome's at best, a dubious practice.

 

[elixir]

I replied;


Still waiting for an answer.

Yes, I have.
Thanks for asking.
His recollection was quite clear, and according to him, when the West NC reps stopped talking, that was it.

 

[ableoneable]

"You have resorted back to form, calling those who question you "yapping puppies" and asserting that have taken more responsibility for your life than anyone who dares question you or your motives." Whenever you've the brass to lecture me on "taking responsibilty"..you've fully crossed over into the yapping puppy pen....period. What's your point, if any therein?

I feel free to lecture you on taking responsibility because everything the happens to the east that is bad is the fault of evil ALPA national and everything good that happens is because you are all courageous soldiers of fortune.

I see that you are at least consistent; anyone who "dares lecture the great and mighty EastUS" is a "yapping puppy."

You are infallible. Understood.

"ALPA national took every opportunity to assist your side. I don't genneraly agree with Holly Hedgemen but on this issue she called it correctly. Had Prater presented the list right away and insisted that JNC talks continue we would probably have a contract in place." = Pure fantasy on all counts to my thinking. Imho: No window of opportunity existed within which the east would have ever voted Nic into play.

"However Prater agreed with you. He thought that the Nicolau list was unfair and he took every opportunity to try and force the west to re-negotiate. " And...you folks staunchly held out with "Ho Ho Ho!, St Nic is coming to town!"!"...OK, again..what's your point?..Another example of Alpo ineffectiveness? Prater didn't care in the least. he just sought, unsuccessfully, to avoid open revolt. His actual words after being visited by the east at Herrndon = "Aribitrators, can be arbitrary"...Some real sense of "unfairness" or any actual concern clearly displayed therein...sheesh!

Whatever's in the past...it's time to at least try working things out...if we can at all.

As Trader so eloquently put it; "We are here to steal your jobs. Now that we have done it let's all get along and work together."

Unlikely.

 

[EastUS]

I have been briefed by council, have you?

No one in the west is particularly concerned with the MDA show.

1. The case is weak.

2. Even should the unlikely occur it will have a negligible impact on the current seniority list.

You may be proved correct. Equally, you may once more be surprised by events. In any case; Hanging one's future on some/any courtroom outcome's at best, a dubious practice.

Earlier post/response:

"Amazingly enough..We heard exactly the opposite..not that any devout Alpoids on either side would misrepresent, or simply outtright lie about anything to their constituents

No matter. If you wish a fully adversarial relationship...OK. It hasn't played out well for you so far, but; the future's always unknown.

Have a good evening.


I replied;

QUOTE
Have you personally talked to anybody who was in the room?
Still waiting for an answer."

Which/when room are we referencing? My guess is no, in my case. What I, and the bulk of the east line pilots heard was that the west was entirely recalcitrant about even mentioning DOH at any level, and was also opposed to any fences. It was said that the west wasn't interested in talking at all. I make no statement that such is any fact, but merely note what was heard on the line by our side. That seems very much opposite to what it appears your group was told. It would be no great surprise to learn that both sides were fed contradictory FUD/BS by the respective MEC's....

 

[Flyz4food]

If you're entirely ignorant as to the events that occurred via the obliteration of the PHL council...magically just "moments" before the re-blessing.."election" of the MEC was to take place, and are equally ignorant of what was actually going on out here with recall attempts against CLT..then, no additional clues will ever serve to enlighten you as to what was actually possble within Alpo, versus what you fantasize.

"Can you take responsibility for anything at all?" A lot more than you've likely ever taken in your life I'd honestly guess, but rant on and patronize away like a yapping little puppy if it suits you. All are well used to that sort of adolescant nonsense from your side in any case.

PS: You'll note that, given that we couldn't get anything done reasonably under/within Alpo, and zero usefull cooperation with them was possible, (given that Alpo Notional simply did whatever it wanted in any case) that we did then recall the entire assemblage. Ummm..Do we get any "points" via "taking responsibilty" there? 😉

You have, and are part of a new Union..which was voted in by our combined group, and yet, you flagrantly disregard and refuse to participate in. You chide the east for not being more aggressive within Alpo participation, however utterly distastefull that was for us....yet you intentionally do NOTHING within our new Union whatsoever. Do YOU need a lecture on "taking responsibility"?...

This vote was a sham and you know it. Pure numbers thats all it was. Similar to the voting in Cuba or Iraq and in Russia. You had the majority of the eligible vote and won. Please realize that many of your side didn't follow party lines. A couple of hundred more....200 or so...perhaps the ones that couldn't change their decision (one from emotion to reality or one from watching your inabilities via video) the outcome would have been entirely different.

In the interest of unity......let's have a do over and hold the election again.

 

[ableoneable]

Yes, I have.
Thanks for asking.
His recollection was quite clear, and according to him, when the West NC reps stopped talking, that was it.

That was actually directed at East but no matter.

Please tell me.

Did you happen to ask what conditions the east negotiators stipulated were necessary for negotiations to proceed?


The east opening position was, DOH, followed by a demand that all upgrades for a five year period would have to be east pilots. This was due to the change in the retirement age.

The east negotiators felt that the age change was more unfair to their FOs than to anyone else and the west should bear the cost for this change.

Yes, based on those preconditions the west negotiators left the table.