Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/19-4/26

[YVINTERN]

It wasn't an election. It was a coup!

Sure...Sure 😉 You know what they say though "History Repeats"

 

[AAA73Pilot]

No matter what you call it, it was still legal according to the NMB.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Fellow pilots, thanks for your support as we start a new day. As you can imagine, we have lots to do with regard to the web site and phone tree. Most importantly, if you need your union, we are here. In the event of an accident or incident, call the USAPA AOSC Hotline 24/7 at 1-800-341-7176.
Follows are copies of the USAPA Accident/Incident Guidance card that will be distributed today:

View attachment 7442

View attachment 7443

The USAPA phone system will be updated today with all new prompts, including a prompt for the Accident/Incident Hotline and Contract Support.

This is a repost from the previous closed week.

 

[cactusboy53]

I have a little-bitty chihuaha in this fight, and I'm praying I'm wrong about something... I hope I'm wrong about the number of people with your attitude are involved in the s**t storm to follow.

Whatever the hell happens, may your sensible thoughts and attachment to real issues prevail.

And god help us all. I don't care what color your lanyard is anymore (which, in fact, sickens me personally); we are still pilots, facing real attacks on our profession, and hopefully blind rage is replaced with the common denominator- we're truly all in this together. That goes beyond the flight deck officers, it goes beyond anything petty and perceived: Let's win this damned fight TOGETHER.

Great post, Elixir.

I see now. Let's win this thing TOGETHER (Now that a majority has sucessfully voted out ALPA). We should now not care what color lanyard one is wearing, because we are now in this together.

Listen bub. That should have been the attitude LAST May after the conclusion of the binding arbitration. The lack of participation of ALPA East in the JNC has completely urinated away the window for contract improvments. YGTBSM!

 

[TRAVIS]

Travis. Please.. AWA needed US Airways as much as US Airways needed AWA. That is a pure fact of matter. Done. We are now in 2008. Let's deal with the real issues. Our men and women on each side will overcome this! Things might look bleek for the time being. Only time will tell, and we are all professionals. SO remember that when you go to work, please. The enemy will always be mgmt! They want division, and will take advantage of any weakness, so be prepared.

Please, all of US, stand together!!! 😎

WCT are you sure awa would have failed or would they have used the backers to step on to the next merger with out US-AIR? And all at US-AIR would be looking for work :huh:

 

[TRAVIS]

WCT plz don't take this wrong. I wish the best to all my professional flight deck brothers. But I think your move to this new union was a bad move.. :unsure:

 

[boeingtamer]

I see now. Let's win this thing TOGETHER (Now that a majority has sucessfully voted out ALPA). We should now not care what color lanyard one is wearing, because we are now in this together.

Listen bub. That should have been the attitude LAST May after the conclusion of the binding arbitration. The lack of participation of ALPA East in the JNC has completely urinated away the window for contract improvments. YGTBSM!

I for one will be removing my yellow lanyard before my next trip as the campaign is over and it is a time for trying to bring the group together. I really see little hope for that in my own wisdom but I invite other pilots, East and West, to join me in prayer that some labor peace can be found here. I really don't see how but with God, all things are possible.

It seems to be no longer a matter for right or wrong, but a battle of egos. We can all fight like babies, each insisting on exactly what we want, but without some compromise both sides are doomed to failure. Like a divorce, only the lawyers will truly get what they want. We will all pay.

They say after an arbitration, if everyone is unhappy, it was probably fair. In the case of Nic, by that standard, it was obviously to the advantage of one side. Even the press paints it that way. Was the advantage fairly won... yes. But that still doesn't make the resulting award an equitable one. The result of the obvious injustice spawned the USAPA that many west pilots now fear will attempt some equally unjust "pay back". Now the question is, will USAPA try to impose an equally unfair seniority integration on the West? If they do, we will be right back where we started.. with injustice. The result of injustice is always anger and action on the part of the harmed party. Middle East politics demonstrate the relentless nature of this cycle of hatred once it gets started. In the best case this cycle can guarantee us all an almost unbearable work environment for the rest of most of our careers. In the worst it can lead to stress, aircraft accidents, and even the destruction of our company.

We have a choice. The reasonable majority on both sides (not usually the types that post on these sorts of boards) can accept that they are not going to get all that they want even though they may be able to legally impose it on the other side. Any absolute success will certainly be a Pyrrhic victory as long as it is at the unfair expense of the other side.

I think it is time attempt again what ALPA could not seem to accomplish. The AWAPPA leadership needs to come together with the USAPA leaders and find a compromise that both sides can live with. Not Nic, not straight DOH, but something that makes both sides unhappy. If the west continues to fight for their fairly won Nic advantage, and succeed, they will pay a non-monetary price for the rest of their careers. If USAPA tries to cram a straight DOH solution on the West and prevails, their fate will be the same. Either way we all ultimately will lose.

It is time to be pragmatic grown-ups. We need to sacrifice our need to be "right" for the higher purpose to do what is "right". It may not feel "right" and may require we all surrender our egos, but it is our only hope beyond prayer. I'll still be praying.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

I for one will be removing my yellow lanyard before my next trip as the campaign is over and it is a time for trying to bring the group together. I really see little hope for that in my own wisdom but I invite other pilots, East and West, to join me in prayer that some labor peace can be found here. I really don't see how but with God, all things are possible.

It seems to be no longer a matter for right or wrong, but a battle of egos. We can all fight like babies, each insisting on exactly what we want, but without some compromise both sides are doomed to failure. Like a divorce, only the lawyers will truly get what they want. We will all pay.

They say after an arbitration, if everyone is unhappy, it was probably fair. In the case of Nic, by that standard, it was obviously to the advantage of one side. Even the press paints it that way. Was the advantage fairly won... yes. But that still doesn't make the resulting award an equitable one. The result of the obvious injustice spawned the USAPA that many west pilots now fear will attempt some equally unjust "pay back". Now the question is, will USAPA try to impose an equally unfair seniority integration on the West? If they do, we will be right back where we started.. with injustice. The result of injustice is always anger and action on the part of the harmed party. Middle East politics demonstrate the relentless nature of this cycle of hatred once it gets started. In the best case this cycle can guarantee us all an almost unbearable work environment for the rest of most of our careers. In the worst it can lead to stress, aircraft accidents, and even the destruction of our company.

We have a choice. The reasonable majority on both sides (not usually the types that post on these sorts of boards) can accept that they are not going to get all that they want even though they may be able to legally impose it on the other side. Any absolute success will certainly be a Pyrrhic victory as long as it is at the unfair expense of the other side.

I think it is time attempt again what ALPA could not seem to accomplish. The AWAPPA leadership needs to come together with the USAPA leaders and find a compromise that both sides can live with. Not Nic, not straight DOH, but something that makes both sides unhappy. If the west continues to fight for their fairly won Nic advantage, and succeed, they will pay a non-monetary price for the rest of their careers. If USAPA tries to cram a straight DOH solution on the West and prevails, their fate will be the same. Either way we all ultimately will lose.

It is time to be pragmatic grown-ups. We need to sacrifice our need to be "right" for the higher purpose to do what is "right". It may not feel "right" and may require we all surrender our egos, but it is our only hope beyond prayer. I'll still be praying.

Keep praying. You sound sincere, but amidst your group you aren't going to get far. Despite a few good people and their good intentions, as a whole, the east cannot be trusted. It is what it is.

 

[sharktooth]

I'll still be praying.

I respect your "religion" but would respectfully suggest that the reason US ended up in this fiasco is because far too many people were sitting around praying and not enough people were out there doing. Just sayin'.........

 

[prechilill]

I am sensing from some of the posts by east pilots lately a complete misunderstanding of events. Amazingly, many seem to believe the vote was the end of an era, the answer to a problem. They look at USAPA as a universal solution to their failed careers, furloughs and all. Of course, it is hard to understand reality when you deny reality in the first place. Let them grow older trying to figure this out.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Usapa voters are all kinds I'm sure, from good folks to scumbags, and all with different ideas. They showed everyone all right, they did it, they "won." I've heard it said that Bradford can't even buy a 5 dollar foot long sandwhich without a comittee vote, sounds great in theory, you know democratic and apple pie and all that, but lets just watch. Everyone will be fighting over olives or no olives, what kind of meat, what kind of bread, etc. Everyone will think they know better than the next guy. The same people, the same brain trust, only without the level of resources as previously. A panacea? Only with rose colored glasses.

 

[sharktooth]

I am sensing from some of the posts by east pilots lately a complete misunderstanding of events. Amazingly, many seem to believe the vote was the end of an era, the answer to a problem.

I get that many believe a first step in the right direction (finally) was taken, one step of many. Perhaps you are conflating posts from other forums with this one?

 

[etops1]

i was talking to some pilots the other day and one brought up a great idea. why not pay the pilots by years of service instead of a/c type? i mean basically every pilot on the east has been a captain right? so pay him/her by years of service. it doesen't matter if a person junior to him/her is the captain and him/her is the f/o as long as he /she is getting paid more than the junior pilot. i f i was a pilot at airways i would not care if a person junior to me is a captain on the A330 and i am a f/o on the e190 as long as i know i am getting paid more than the captain because i have been with the company longer.

 

[av8or]

Keep praying. You sound sincere, but amidst your group you aren't going to get far. Despite a few good people and their good intentions, as a whole, the east cannot be trusted. It is what it is.

truer words we're never spoken, just ask any WO'd from the past decade or so

like to see 'seniority matters' put money where the mouth is if they even deign to talk to us about the flow we almost had worked out until they're little overthrow

 

[TRAVIS]

ALPA will be back in the next merger of your airline and i bet they will work real hard for you! And if USAPA does get the awa seats and replaces them with usair pilots, After the new airline comes in and all their pilots flush them out again, What will the usair pilots tell the awa pilots that took the jobs that they held to come back to USAIR. GET UP THATS MY SEAT!