pilots and flight attendants BOTH sign a merger agreement!

[Itestwell]

Your union thinks sacraficing the future and pay is a worthy price to get rid of current management. Parker scammed everyone at AA, and this whole ball of wax is going right down the shitter. AA is no longer, and the service it provides will go away and this country will be left with two big airlines with services akin to low cost carriers, and one large one that pretends to be a premium carrier but really isn't.

What a total sh** show this whole thing has become. GAME OVER.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

Eek. That sounds worse than that zombie apocalypse theory I heard a few weeks back. Thanks for the heads up! 😱

 

[777 / 767 / 757 Love]

Eek. That sounds worse than that zombie apocalypse theory I heard a few weeks back. Thanks for the heads up! 😱

I see what you did there.......and I will laugh when I'm right and people are looking for new ways to feed their families. Won't be able to blame management this time around. If unions cooperate, the blame with originate and stop with labor, management will 100% innocent.

Good luck to you, because if Parker and US is what you view as the magic pill, your gonna need a ton of luck.

Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757

 

[silverbird007]

Sorry, dear. They don't have to buy out you and me. We'll just be furloughed. At least I can retire, and collect what there is of my frozen pension. And, I might be wrong, but I think they have f/as on furlough that are senior to us. I'll just have 11 years in January.

I used to fly for another airline back in the mid 90s and i know 1 fa who went to US Airways in 2000, he was furloughed for awhile but he is back flying again so maybe the US fas that are furloughed (If it is true) are junior to you. It may be on the AFA website but not sure. I was also told that some of the US fas who wanted to could transfer over to the America West side?? but im not sure if they are still seperate? I guess you could also find out from someone on the US Forum. If we do merge Im sure there will be another buy out (at least i hope so) Hopefully the company will add up the #s from the current buyout and the new hires and realize how much $ they are saving and do it again. It makes sense but....

 

[silverbird007]

That's not what you said before. I was just pointing out that it can happen. In this situation, I agree a staple won't happen. Anything else, I won't even wager a guess. One should never assume anything in life. I still think the F9 pilots missed the boat big time by not agreeing to be stapled with the inherrant fences and large increase in pay to work for a profitable carrier who has never involuntarily furloughed anyone. Still just my opinion. They seem to be way better off now, don't you think? That was sarcasm, by the way. By the way, just because AFA wants something, doesn't mean they will get it. Same goes for APFA.

I havent actually seen the exact bill that was passed but just what I have been told as far as being stapled, If it is not true then what exactly does it say? I dont think the AFA or the APFA would ever agree to their members being stapled (TWAs union agreed to it from what i understand) for whatever reason. I dont think either company would want would want to start a merger with the animosity and problems that another staple job would cause , not to mention the creditors commitee.

 

[FWAAA]

Speaking hypothetically, it is entirely possible for a date-of-hire seniority integration to be equivalent to a staple; imagine if AA and VX merged. AA hasn't hired new FAs since 2001 yet every VX FA has a DOH no earlier than 2007. Everyone agrees to DOH and viola - the VX FAs have been stapled.

 

[silverbird007]

Speaking hypothetically, it is entirely possible for a date-of-hire seniority integration to be equivalent to a staple; imagine if AA and VX merged. AA hasn't hired new FAs since 2001 yet every VX FA has a DOH no earlier than 2007. Everyone agrees to DOH and viola - the VX FAs have been stapled.

I just googled the McCaskill Bond Amendment and it states that if the two parties cannot agree on a combined seniority list then it has to go to an arbitrator. I knew it did not require date of hire but it gave several examples: ie relative seniority integration, DOH, and a couple of other methods, but either one of them will one way or another prevent a staple job like the AA TWA staple, it actually states that the reason for the amendment is to prevent that from ever happening again. At the end of the day it will mean an integration that will be either DOH or something very close. The IAM threw the TWA fas under the bus but the McCaskill Bond amendment was designed to prevent it from ever happening again. So yes No more staples. I agree with you on the VX senario, they might vote for it if the company is under threat of liquidation but remember the Reno merger? they got DOH so it could happen again. The US merger is a different story, they have a decent union (especially compared to the TWA union), they are not under threat of liquidation etc.

 

[silverbird007]

Oh yea the F9 pilots eventually merged with SWA didnt they? So I guess they gave in, or what happened? I know that the merger went through but thats about it, I havent paid much attention to that merger since it doesnt really affect me.

 

[IORFA]

1, Reno didn't get DOH. They received seniority dates the last day of the month the last F/A was trained. Which happened to be 8/31/99. No Reno F/A has a seniority date earlier than that. 2, F9 is Frontier, they did not merge or get bought by WN (Southwest). They didn't agree to be stapled, so WN walked away. 3, what you mention regarding MCB is what happens if their is NO agreed upon seniority agreement. Once again, IF it is agreed, then there can be a staple job. However likely that may/not be.

 

[jimntx]

I havent actually seen the exact bill that was passed but just what I have been told as far as being stapled, If it is not true then what exactly does it say? I dont think the AFA or the APFA would ever agree to their members being stapled (TWAs union agreed to it from what i understand) for whatever reason. I dont think either company would want would want to start a merger with the animosity and problems that another staple job would cause , not to mention the creditors commitee.

The TWA f/a's union agreed to a staple. The f/as did not. Well, to be exact, they were told that the AA "merger" was their only hope, and that if they didn't agree to a staple so that the merger could go through, TWA would go out of business and they would be without jobs or pensions. I heard later that Boeing was also interested in buying TWA; so, AMR may not have been TWA's only hope after all. Management--particularly AMR management--lying to employees??? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you! Round up the usual suspects.

 

[jimntx]

Oh yea the F9 pilots eventually merged with SWA didnt they? So I guess they gave in, or what happened? I know that the merger went through but thats about it, I havent paid much attention to that merger since it doesnt really affect me.

No the merger did not go through. F9 is the code for Frontier Airlines (based in Denver), not Airtran (based in Atlanta) which merged with WN. Southwest attempted to buy F9, but the F9 pilots blocked it because of the staple issue. F9 was later bought by Republic Airways, the holding company, based in Indianapolis, that owns Chautauqua Airlines, Frontier Airlines, Republic Airlines and Shuttle America. Note that all except Frontier are regional jet operators. Republic has discovered that operating a "mainline" airline is not the same as operating a regional carrier, and they are attempting to sell Frontier.

 

[silverbird007]

The TWA f/a's union agreed to a staple. The f/as did not. Well, to be exact, they were told that the AA "merger" was their only hope, and that if they didn't agree to a staple so that the merger could go through, TWA would go out of business and they would be without jobs or pensions. I heard later that Boeing was also interested in buying TWA; so, AMR may not have been TWA's only hope after all. Management--particularly AMR management--lying to employees??? I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you! Round up the usual suspects.

Yea i remeber the TWA fa union did agree to staple them, thats why all the lawsuits from the fas they sued the IAM, the APFA and AA, and lost and then appealed at least once. Then the TWA fas got the McCaskill Bond amendment passed so that it couldnt happen again. I googled it (The McCaskill Bond amendment) The amendment states that if the 2 groups merging cant agree to a combined list then an arbitrator has to make the decision. A staple wont happen with AA and US. I posted a question on US Airways forum asking if they have any furloughed fas but so far no response. it may be on the AFA website I havent checked that, not sure if it gives out that info anyway.

 

[silverbird007]

1, Reno didn't get DOH. They received seniority dates the last day of the month the last F/A was trained. Which happened to be 8/31/99. No Reno F/A has a seniority date earlier than that. 2, F9 is Frontier, they did not merge or get bought by WN (Southwest). They didn't agree to be stapled, so WN walked away. 3, what you mention regarding MCB is what happens if their is NO agreed upon seniority agreement. Once again, IF it is agreed, then there can be a staple job. However likely that may/not be.

Ok i remember now about the Reno fas, we were hiring like crazy at that time so they were off the bottom pretty fast., I thought F9 was airtran, my bad! Did the airtran fas get DOH? I dont remember any complaints from airtran but I really wasnt paying that much attention either.

 

[Dilligas]

I am still amazed that a supposedly intelligent group of people would vote to merge with US and risk Doug Parker being in charge when he has proven himself to NOT be a friend of labor OR customers. Over 7 years in and there is no labor peace at US, and you want to work with this guy? What makes you think he'll keep his word regarding promises he makes to get your support? And what makes you think US labor will just go along?

Personally I think the only way this merger works is with AA/AMR the acquiring entity and potentially bringing in outside talent as a new management team. Parker is over his head at US, what makes you think he'll do anything positive here?

Art, the panic in your post that Doug may actually pull this off and run the largest airline is very evident. Hell hath no fury like a woman (or cockroach) scorned. Because your little club was co-opted by previous US management and rendered irrelevant, and because Doug & crew had zero interest in your club, you're a bitter person. Move on, get over it.

While I can agree with some of your comments about Parker, he is in no way in over his head at US. Making a profit with limited resources isn't what I would consider being in over your head. Some of the moves that he has made at US were a method of survival. I'm willing to give him a shot at running the combined airlines.

Refreshing to see some fair minded analysis of the realities of the situation. Am I a Doug cheerleader... no... but I do have the intellectual honesty to grant he has done a great job with what he was given, and is now on the threshold of pulling off something huge. He and his crew deserve some credit and respect for that, and some appreciation from those still employed in this volatile and unpredictable industry.

They took care of the AW/US merger on their own. And sad to say, we were initially optimistic about that merger...and I am not ashamed to admit we were wrong big time.

You were wrong about lots more than you are not ashamed to admit to.

US Airways is running a good operation. That's not an easy thing to do in this industry. We're profitable, and for the first time in a long time, things are looking up for labor. Why do so many who never worked a day in our industry pontificate as armchair CEO's and think they now so much about airline operations? How about revealing your employers so we can pretend to be experts in your field?

FFOCUS began as the Cockroaches. Previous US management outwitted your leaders and manipulated you into changing your name and becoming the water carriers for US management as they deluded you into feeling "special" with your "access" and "input". You were owned when you gave into them and changed your name, lost all your credibility. Soon you were discarded and on the trash heap of airline historical trivia. To their credit, Doug and crew saw you for what you were.

Now, you and your ilk take every passive aggressive opportunity to attack Doug personally, take cheap shots, and root against US, while pretending to be "for the employees" and "for the customers". You were always only out for your own special interests, and while that is ok, you never had the cajones or integrity to be up front and honest.

Telling AA employees "Be careful what you wish for."... what the heck do you know about anything?

The employees at AA and US that survive the merger process will soon find out they have much more in common than they may have initally believed. Should this merger go through, they will pull together and make it work for our common self interest and preservation. Like any combination there will be challenges, and rough periods... but it will work.

Doug deserves some grudging respect for even having this scenario being considered. It's time some of you cockroaches get over your personal pettiness and hurt feelings and recognize what has transpired over the last decade.

I wish the employees of AA well, and don't ever take career advice from a cockroach.

All this being said, I guess it's time for you or Bob to trot out the M&M story, haven't seen it in this thread yet and it seems to be introduced into most

 

[1AA]

If things are running that good at USAir how come Parker and company can not settle on contracts, work rules, integration and labor disputes directly related to the previous merger or mergers? Bringing AA into the mix is out of Parkers league. Who is fooling who here? USAir does not give that warm and fuzzy feeling with mergers.

 

[TWU informer]

If things are running that good at USAir how come Parker and company can not settle on contracts, work rules, integration and labor disputes directly related to the previous merger or mergers? Bringing AA into the mix is out of Parkers league. Who is fooling who here? USAir does not give that warm and fuzzy feeling with mergers.

What if we have been played like a fiddle here in every aspect? Like USAir not getting labor agreements and AA filing C11 with $4.5 billion were all part of a well thought mutual plan from the start? And now the music is about to stop because once again and as always, those with all the power have gotten exactly what they wanted and the plan is near completion now. And everything we visibly see is just a charade to prevent being prosecuted in public opinion and law? Call me a Tin-Foil hat wearer if you like, but anything is possible in this society of greed and laws that favor the greed. ANYTHING!