PIT F/As and Pilots

[PA18]

Sounds to me like you are trying to push people to go to CLT. Fact is the best possible commute situation is still PHL with SW as a backup.
Just my opinion...

No, I'm not really trying to push anybody anywhere, and I apologize if it came off that way. And you are quite correct in that I am unfamiliar with, and overlooked off-line commuting options. (God bless Southwest for being so accommodating.)

It doesn't matter, anyway. When we have a displacement bid, as we've had so many times in the past, everybody is eventually affected in some way. Somebody from PIT bids CLT, which bumps somebody from CLT to PHL to hold a block, which bumps somebody from PHL to LGA, etc.

The point I was trying to make is, one should look at more than one's relative position when making bid choices. (Just like one should look at more than just the compensation section when voting on a contract.)

Time and time again, I have seen people bid into a base to chase a block or a better vacation, only to spend their entire time in the new base p'ing and m'ing about how the trips stink, how the lines stink, how expensive the hotels are, how the commute is horrible, and how much they can't wait to bid out again.

I just hate to see people making the same mistake every time there's a bid; especially when they have a gun to their head, like the PIT crews do now. Making a bad bid choice while being displaced makes a difficult situation even more miserable.

 

[beachboy]

OK I am going to bring up the white Elephant in the room. What are your thoughts on bumping other more jr flight attendants out a base you want to go to when there is no openening? It's a right given to people under the contract but, what are you thoughts? Some think it's fair game with seniority. Others think it's seniority bullying (a term from a UAL F/A not mine). I guess it depends on what end of the stick your on. Can anyone tell me another airline that has this in their contract? I can't find it but maybe I am wrong. Most airlines when a base is closed you must go where there is an opening and await a transfer spot with priority rights. On that same note what should seniority be good for? Monthly schedule, VAC positions of course. Where is the line? Hey, might as well discuss it.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

OK I am going to bring up the white Elephant in the room. What are your thoughts on bumping other more jr flight attendants out a base you want to go to when there is no openening? It's a right given to people under the contract but, what are you thoughts? Some think it's fair game with seniority. Others think it's seniority bullying (a term from a UAL F/A not mine). I guess it depends on what end of the stick your on. Can anyone tell me another airline that has this in their contract? I can't find it but maybe I am wrong. Most airlines when a base is closed you must go where there is an opening and await a transfer spot with priority rights. On that same note what should seniority be good for? Monthly schedule, VAC positions of course. Where is the line? Hey, might as well discuss it.

Well I can say I have seen the good ole USAIRWAYS bump... I am sure glad at UAL they cannot do that... You can bid for a base that is open.. For example when EWR and PHL closed they could bid into an open base such as ORD or DCA SFO LAX ETC., but if a base is full .. for example: HNL, you can't just bump into it because you are senior to someone, that is absurd and very disruptive to many people, and it has a domino effect which makes it very ineffective..

 

[safety stud]

What you should look at is this is a base closure, not just displacement. Downsizing and still keeping a base open is one thing. Closing a base is another. The same problems happened when U closed LAX. Same holds true here. You cant superseed seniority, just for the sake of making the most junior F/A's happy. PIT has some of the most senior flight attendants on the property. When everything plays out in the end, you will probably see fewer flight attendants that are actually going to continue flying. It is sad that it came to this. I'm not just talking about the junior ones getting "Bumped" either, the senior ones might just say they have had enough...and...SEE YA

Just my opinion...

 

[beachboy]

It's been in the contract since the days of curtains hanging in the a/c windows at Allegheny. Who would have thought back then RSV would run 20 years? And then, the people getting bumped have been bumped numerous times and furloughed 1 or 2 times. Honestly, I don't know how your can justify it. Seniority should only extend so far and at some point it becomes a downright smack in the face. But I respect the right and others opinions.

 

[EMBFA]

Can anyone tell me another airline that has this in their contract? I can't find it but maybe I am wrong. Most airlines when a base is closed you must go where there is an opening and await a transfer spot with priority rights.

From what I can gather, US Airways is the only airline with this dubious provision in thier contract. I am only familiar with the contracts of the Big 6 (work rules for Delta), but from what I can recall no one else has this, nor is it something people at any seniority want at any of those carriers.

If you sit and compare all of the contracts, it's blatantly obvious what each carrier's priorities are (and who is in the top positions in the union). Ours values the flexibility of the very top percentile of the work group with almost zero regard for the bottom of the list. The comedy of the whole thing, of course, is that due to thier shortsightedness, the bottom keeps getting closer. All of the disregard for the "junior" (is anyone actually 'junior' anymore, aside from relatively? We are nearing a decade for new hire status) is catching up. Furloughs, outsourced flying (Hi Pittsburgh!), cruel reserve system, displacements... it's getting closer and closer to the top as our group shrinks and are consolidated base-wise.

 

[beachboy]

EMB- Very well put. That's the way I feel in a nut shell. Seniority is a two way street. It goes forward and backward. But these girls only look forward and then wonder what happened when they get hit with the other end. It's like a hot air balloon and the JR people are the sand bags. Keep throwing them off to make you rise and stay in the air. What a shame.

 

[PA18]

It's been in the contract since the days of curtains hanging in the a/c windows at Allegheny. Who would have thought back then RSV would run 20 years? And then, the people getting bumped have been bumped numerous times and furloughed 1 or 2 times. Honestly, I don't know how your can justify it. Seniority should only extend so far and at some point it becomes a downright smack in the face. But I respect the right and others opinions.

One thing that used to be in the contracts at one of the predecessor airlines was a "recapture right". That is, if one was bumped out of a base, and there were openings in that base in a subsequent bid, the people who had been bumped out of the base had the first right to bid back in, before somebody more senior from another base could bid for the open positions.

This at least somewhat mitigated the disruption of the junior people's lives.

 

[beachboy]

We have that as well. I guess it helps a little.

I. Priority Return

1. A flight attendant who is displaced in accordance with Paragraph
C of this Section may exercise priority return over non-displaced flight
attendants and utilize his/her seniority to return to his/her former domicile
when a vacancy occurs or the base is reopened. Furthermore, free available
space on Company transportation facilities for the shipping of personal
belongings shall be furnished to the extent permitted by law. At the time of
displacement, the Company will provide the flight attendant with a
preference form. A flight attendant who wishes to exercise this option of
returning to his/her former domicile must file the preference form within
thirty (30) days of his/her displacement. Should the flight attendant decline
the first opportunity to exercise a priority return, or subsequently transfer
voluntarily to a domicile in another location, this right of return will be
forfeited. Subsequent displacements will not cause the flight attendant to
forfeit the right of return.

 

[SKY HIGH]

If you sit and compare all of the contracts, it's blatantly obvious what each carrier's priorities are (and who is in the top positions in the union). Ours values the flexibility of the very top percentile of the work group with almost zero regard for the bottom of the list.

sky high states: Didnt "someone" on this board fight like hell to get decent VOLUNTARY FURLOUGH RIGHTS to those who wanted to leave, so those JUNIOR F/A's wouldnt be KICKED TO THE CURB as the carrier downsized? Didnt she FIGHT for everyone?

The pension issue is more a senior issue. Could YOU careless about your colleagues going into retirement WITHOUT medical? I think NOT. You're NOT THE ONLY ONE THAT'S BEEN, uhhhhh, SCREWED. EMBFA. If you dont think so, I'll be happy to show you a CONTRACT from twenty years ago!

only stating opinions

 

[Twicebaked]

We have that as well. I guess it helps a little.

I. Priority Return

1. A flight attendant who is displaced in accordance with Paragraph
C of this Section may exercise priority return over non-displaced flight
attendants and utilize his/her seniority to return to his/her former domicile
when a vacancy occurs or the base is reopened. Furthermore, free available
space on Company transportation facilities for the shipping of personal
belongings shall be furnished to the extent permitted by law. At the time of
displacement, the Company will provide the flight attendant with a
preference form. A flight attendant who wishes to exercise this option of
returning to his/her former domicile must file the preference form within
thirty (30) days of his/her displacement. Should the flight attendant decline
the first opportunity to exercise a priority return, or subsequently transfer
voluntarily to a domicile in another location, this right of return will be
forfeited. Subsequent displacements will not cause the flight attendant to
forfeit the right of return.

Unfortunately this won't help in this case.

I have a priority return to PIT.

It is hard to return to something that is no longer there. LOL :down:

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

As many of us from past base closings know, a priority return is a worthless ticket.

Keep it,remember it and then try to adjust to the new realities.

Living in the past is a bitter pill to swallow.