Planning on a new TA ? (fleet )

freedom

Veteran
Feb 15, 2006
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Want to go to the moon ? Well the first thing your going to need is a plan .


If your going to do something big , something complex in today’s world your going to need a plan , even simple actions need them . Say I want to chop down a tree in my yard, I know I’m going to need a chainsaw , gloves , eyewear , hearing protection etc , that’s called planning , the task might be simple , but we still have to think out how we’re going to go about doing it .

Now to relate this to our current situation , Sooner or later the official word is going to come out that we’ve rejected the proposed contract , so the next question is going to be , what do we do now ? We have some options open to us , we could sit back and wait for the union to try and figure out what we want again , but if they are as out of touch as you think they are , it’s not going to do us much good to try and let them read our minds . SO we have to figure out just what it is that we want , and then communicate it to our union .

The first step in this collective process is an individual one , you have to ask yourself what it is that YOU would like out of any new TA , do you want higher pay ? Or do want the benefits of increased holidays and sick pay ? Perhaps you’d rather have job security instead of a uniform allowance. Figure out the bare minimum that you would find acceptable and go up from there , aim high . After you know what you want , talk to others and see what it is they would like . Then begin the debate process . I don’t care if Henry Kissinger comes on this board and hacks out a new TA for us, no one going to be 100% happy with every clause in it . So there will be compromises , give and take is part of any agreement between parties (ourselves ).

After we know what we want out of any new TA , we must find a way to inform our union leaders of our wishes . Shall we fax in a copy of our proposed TA with the words “NEW TA “ written on top? Will a few of us go to their shop stewards and tell them to tell the higher ups ? Do we just post it on us aviation and hope that the union higher-ups read this message board and will just adopt it ? This is a serious question because our union is generally run top down instead of bottom up and it’s just that much harder to communicate with the top of the pyramid when you’re on the base . I don’t have an answer for this question .

Let’s suppose that we’re able to convey our wishes to our representatives somehow , we then have to go through another bargaining and debate processes with this group , your now going to ask why this would happen if as a collective we’ve decided on what we would like to propose to the company . This happens because that’s the way it seems to work in a democracy , Does anyone ever recall electing an official who has done exactly what their constituents would like them to do ? So the best that we can hope for is that they will take our major points and make them theirs when they go to back to the table with the company . If on a second attempt our elected representatives completely ignore our wishes then you know it’s time for new leaders .

If you want to go somewhere your going to have to figure out which way and how .


So what would you like to see in a new TA ?
 
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Get a grip Freedom !

sorry i don't get you , explain ?

i don't have to time to wait up and see just what it is you mean by this statment but i'm going to assume that either

A. what i've said makes no sense , or

B. you have a personal grudge against me because i was in the yes party .

Well if it's option A , What i'm saying is that it's time to stop griping and time to start thinking objectively ( a plan has a goal and obejectives that you meet in order to further it ).

If it's option B . Guess what , now that the votes over we're on the same side again . I want to win , i want to win badly , and that means i won't stop , there will be no disengagment of the west , there cannot be because this effects all of us .If we have to get fresh with this company to get what we want ,so be it . WHATEVER IT TAKES TO WIN .
 
You have a bargaining committee already. The company may want to try and sneak another TA in as soon as the votes are tallied no. I don't think there is enough time the way this company bargains. You would most definately see the same b.s. as the first one with a little perk here and there.

Your best chance is in 2009 when you bargain a new contract. That is when you will see major changes for the better. It is sure better with the no vote now because with that disgraceful T/A that was handed to you all it would have pushed off contract negotiations for 2-3 more years past 2009.

I would say, sit tight, the COC will probably be heard and 2008 is just around the corner. The union will be working with employees the whole year of 2008 mobilizing ideas for a new and improved contract.

Bargaining/negotiations are very slow with this company.
 
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You have a bargaining committee already. The company may want to try and sneak another TA in as soon as the votes are tallied no. I don't think there is enough time the way this company bargains. You would most definately see the same b.s. as the first one with a little perk here and there.

Your best chance is in 2009 when you bargain a new contract. That is when you will see major changes for the better. It is sure better with the no vote now because with that disgraceful T/A that was handed to you all it would have pushed off contract negotiations for 2-3 more years past 2009.

I would say, sit tight, the COC will probably be heard and 2008 is just around the corner. The union will be working with employees the whole year of 2008 mobilizing ideas for a new and improved contract.

Bargaining/negotiations are very slow with this company.

Well the union should at least TRY and see if they can get a new TA , one thing is for certain , if we lose arbitration we lose alot , and when you say wait till 2009 that means a new contract in late 2010 (if things continune normally ). Besides , i'm tired of waiting , and aren't you in MX ? Aren't you tired of waiting as well ? i want to FIGHT !!!!!

Many of you think the company is AFRAID of CIC , well then , where are all the people who cried out , doug parker has a new better contract in his desk ? As that this vote is big time no , this SHOULD give more leverage to our JNC . If the company is bluffing , it will soon be time to call .

What an improved TA might look like , here are some differing points


50% percent raise within 30 days , the full amount after 3 months .


Scope :

CARGO :no cargo operations will be outsourced anywhere , unless the union agrees to it .

OUTSOURCING OF FIELD STATIONS: The clauses in the first contract are kept regarding 14 mainline flights a week , with the addition of a clause that states that 3 mesa flights a day will count as one mainline flight (we do mesa ground work at our field stations ).

60 day rule : rule eliminated , anyone on furlough will return to work at the pay and seniority date at which they were put on furlough , furthermore , anyone who has accepted recall will be returned to their paydate and seniority from when they were put on furlough if they so wish . (or a better idea might be to add the years they had onto the years they now have and combine the amount )

SICK LEAVE: will be as it is in the TWU contract

Holidays : will be as it is in the TWU contract .

Uniform allotment : The first year of the contract the company will allot 150 for full time workers and 80 for part time workers , there after the company will pay bi annually 80 dollars for full time workers and 40 for part time workers .

Parking : the company will continue to pay for employee parking where it is currently doing so now .

Fulltime/part time ration : will be increased for more full time workers .

Overtime :Double time on the 7th day .

Profit sharing for 2007

The above is solely my opinion .
 
"Someday in the future", as it was put, will be September 5th. Assuming the IAM has their gear together (which isn't likely) they will either have a second TA offer on that date (due to the FOS DECS/CLP switch this needs to be settled) or will demand the Company enter IMMEDIATE Section 6 negotiations. They have time to get together a wish list. Even if the Company is 100% faithful in negotiating a speedy contract, it will NOT even be scheduled for a week MINIMUM. That's at least a week for the IAM to get a wish list. That list will be given in some format to the Company, and they will give the IAM theirs (98% it's the current West agreement). They break to discuss for a few weeks and a real contract proposal will be developed. Add two years of dicking around and we'll have a proposal for West just in time for the East contract to be ammendable.

If the IAM isn't on the ball and/or the Company won't play, the Company will face a very valid Scope grievance on CLP when they switch the FOS DECS in late September. Morale will sink even lower, SAT bags will be found in PEK, delays will skyrocket, and America West will have attained a low far deeper then bankruptcy.

Yeah, I know. I've got a morale problem. Gee, I wonder why?
 
freedon oh how fast you realize what we need!!

Well i think we need a new committee of people from the ramp. Obviously they are out of touch with the majority of the fleet personnel and how does the IAM expect us to ratify a contract if we dont trust the individuals negotiating for us. Freedom did hit it on the head for the west employees, Its now about our Benies: STD, LTD, profit sharing in 07, and full pay within ratification date. 14 mainline per week and 2 RJs equal one mainline. LIke Ive stated before the west should gain in everyaspect of our contract we have no reason to go backwards. let me also add something else 9 years ago pre union if you were a kiss ass you could get a 6% raise every year now the company wants to give everyone 2% come on thats a slap in the face and inflation is more than that we will be making less every year as inflation around us rises, wake the f* up people.
 
There ain't no more negotiating. The next step is arbitration. Unless the company can present a kick ass agreement, but my personal opinion is that they will not present a new agreement, let it go to arbitration and then appeal if they lose the arbitration. These guys are deal makers not serious about running an airline but setting us up for the taking. The longer it takes the more they rape. Let's hope I'm wrong but I wouldn't hold your breath.
 
You have a bargaining committee already. The company may want to try and sneak another TA in as soon as the votes are tallied no. I don't think there is enough time the way this company bargains. You would most definately see the same b.s. as the first one with a little perk here and there.

Your best chance is in 2009 when you bargain a new contract. That is when you will see major changes for the better. It is sure better with the no vote now because with that disgraceful T/A that was handed to you all it would have pushed off contract negotiations for 2-3 more years past 2009.

I would say, sit tight, the COC will probably be heard and 2008 is just around the corner. The union will be working with employees the whole year of 2008 mobilizing ideas for a new and improved contract.

Bargaining/negotiations are very slow with this company.
Bingo!

Freedom doesn't realize that fleet service already has a plan and it was displayed with the vote. The plan has not changed, a fair and equitable contract.
I think the company/IAM Bosses are the ones who have to go back and do the math on this. They need to step up to plan A, and screw plan B. Remember, no transition without Plan A.

Fleet service will see this to the end if they don't get a contract with dignity and respect. Also, CLP grievance is very likely. Actually things are a huge mess as nobody seems to be taking care of Labor matters at your company.

And I need to know the whereabouts of the profit sharing grievance. Sharing of the 'profit sharing' was a major change to the agreement but there was not a ratification, thus a possible DFR if challenged in court. I know someone in CLT filed the grievance and processed it to level 2 but I have lost track of it.

regards,
 
Question? When the arbitratior hears the case he has x amount of time to rule. What would stop the company and the IAM from comming forth with another T/A with the stipilation that if it is voted Yes the arbitration case would be droped. Tim any insite into this senerio would be helpfull.
 
there already is a CLP grievance from the west, it was initiated the first go around when the company tried to get it together, i was told that the grievance has contributed to it being delayed thus far. I have contacted the IAM reguarding the grievance and have not heard what the update is on it.

I believe section 6 for the west must go on, I been preaching it for a year and a half now.
 
Tim,
Thanks fortaking the time to care and update us on what you know. And yes, I know you quite well
from the CLT days....
 
there already is a CLP grievance from the west, it was initiated the first go around when the company tried to get it together, i was told that the grievance has contributed to it being delayed thus far. I have contacted the IAM reguarding the grievance and have not heard what the update is on it.

I believe section 6 for the west must go on, I been preaching it for a year and a half now.
Go for it Nevada. Hitler lost WWII because he tried to fight a war on two fronts. I don't think the IAM can succeed by fight a two front war either. Force the issue and make them fight for what is rightfully yours. Respectfully A Brother in the east
 

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