PLI and JLT wothless or pointless

[Ken MacTiernan]

So Ken, AMFAMAN, Hopeless what is your solution? WE all know you want the TWU out. Then what? Please tell us what happens when another union gets on the property? But please spare me the the comments regarding voting in internat'l reps etc. Voting rights will not get rid of the very thing you are complaining about.

My solution? Well, BILL, it's quite simple. Stop participating in consultant based work groups were the membership helps the company save money which in turn is placed in the pockets of management.

You see, BILL, the issue you bring about the twu is valid. However, the people who walked out of these concessionary meetings were elected NOT appointed. And I will re-elect those I am able to vote for who indeed walked. These people understand what respect means.

Those who remain in these talks keep mentioning how it is good to remain. I do not agree. Where are the tangible results on the Line? When is the money that was stolen from us going to be returned?

I never mentioned anything about a different union in this matter. You did. But since you mentioned it WHEN we get a different union at AA if this same senario happens again you will not have to work about a person selling out the membership for an international position since that person will still have to be voted in.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I would like to see every local in the AA system conduct a membership balloting regarding any further involvement or non-involvement in the working together for a bone-us program.

Here in the 564 I am submitting a motion for just that. Other Locals will have similar motions too.

The International will not allow an election. The International does not approve of elections. They would much rather just appoint and remove at will, instead of planting stooges to run for office. It is all about power. Allowing a vote threatens their power.

 

[Bob Owens]

So Ken, AMFAMAN, Hopeless what is your solution? WE all know you want the TWU out. Then what? Please tell us what happens when another union gets on the property? But please spare me the the comments regarding voting in internat'l reps etc. Voting rights will not get rid of the very thing you are complaining about.

Accountability.

The flight attendants sent the those who signed their concessions into place back to the floor to reap what they had sown.

The pilots sent those who were responsible for negotiating their concessions back to the floor to reap what they had sown.

TWU members got to see Jim Little get promoted and nearly double his pay after signing away 25% of ours.

Accountability to the members from leadership, its a good place to start.

 

[eolesen]

While sending their elected officials back to the line probably felt good for a few minutes, what exactly did it accomplish? Was Ralph Hunter or Tommie Hutto-Blake able to do anything constructive towards restoring concessions or getting people off furlough???

If anything, it appears they came to the same conclusion -- their predecessors had no way of stopping what happened, and they, too, were powerless to change that.

 

[Hopeful]

So Ken, AMFAMAN, Hopeless what is your solution? WE all know you want the TWU out. Then what? Please tell us what happens when another union gets on the property? But please spare me the the comments regarding voting in internat'l reps etc. Voting rights will not get rid of the very thing you are complaining about.

I want a union that will not sleep with the company and always be so accomodating. And spare me the defense that the TWU is working constructively with the company. One would expect a company to negotiate a contract that benefits it. But to have a union that only cares about one base, TULSA, and who will do whatever the company asks in that marital bed, is not beneficial to ALL its members.
When Burchette said on that CNN special that he was going to put his hands in the company's pocket come contract time, what he meant was for the benefit of TULSA.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

The International will not allow an election. The International does not approve of elections. They would much rather just appoint and remove at will, instead of planting stooges to run for office. It is all about power. Allowing a vote threatens their power.

This is one issue that I do not think even the int. could over rule. WHEN the membership tells our Local officials we do NOT want to remain in these concessionary talks they must listen. A vote by the membership should be listened to.

If the int. steps in and over rules a vote or says such a vote is illegal should be a wake up call for any and all AMT left in a deep coma that the int. is not interested in the AMT, only themselves.

Where is the twu int. appointed officials talking to the media? I have e-mailed Don Videtich and Gary Yingst about this subject and I have not received a response. The silence is deafening!

 

[AMFAMAN]

I have e-mailed Don Videtich and Gary Yingst about this subject and I have not received a response.

Ken, I got the auto-response e-mail. Here it is:

We're sorry, but Don's eating right now and Gary's pig hunting, they'll return your e-mails sometime between now and Christmas, we thank you for your patience. :mf_boff:

 

[High Speed Steel]

My solution? Well, BILL, it's quite simple. Stop participating in consultant based work groups were the membership helps the company save money which in turn is placed in the pockets of management.

You see, BILL, the issue you bring about the twu is valid. However, the people who walked out of these concessionary meetings were elected NOT appointed. And I will re-elect those I am able to vote for who indeed walked. These people understand what respect means.

Those who remain in these talks keep mentioning how it is good to remain. I do not agree. Where are the tangible results on the Line? When is the money that was stolen from us going to be returned?

I never mentioned anything about a different union in this matter. You did. But since you mentioned it WHEN we get a different union at AA if this same senario happens again you will not have to work about a person selling out the membership for an international position since that person will still have to be voted in.

So your solution is to fall victim to the pitfalls of the industry.

What is wrong with trying to eliminate waste which plagues our productivity? Saving time and money is a key element for exposing capacity which can be utilized for third party work that promotes opportunities for growth.

This growth. I believe will have its rewards.

Your solution falls short of opportunities. Just look at the lessons learned at NW.

 

[MCI transplant]

So your solution is to fall victim to the pitfalls of the industry.

What is wrong with trying to eliminate waste which plagues our productivity? Saving time and money is a key element for exposing capacity which can be utilized for third party work that promotes opportunities for growth.

This growth. I believe will have its rewards.

Your solution falls short of opportunities. Just look at the lessons learned at NW.

<_< -----That's the point High speed! There is no growth! And the rewards are all going into our executives pockets! We had fifty one people retire here last year! aa added work, and reluctantly recalled eighteen! So where's the growth?--- 😉

 

[Hackman]

So your solution is to fall victim to the pitfalls of the industry.

What is wrong with trying to eliminate waste which plagues our productivity? Saving time and money is a key element for exposing capacity which can be utilized for third party work that promotes opportunities for growth.

This growth. I believe will have its rewards.

Your solution falls short of opportunities. Just look at the lessons learned at NW.

The lessons learned at NW? Yeah, only one union has the balls to strike and stand up for our profession. Hint to the blind; its not the twu. The twu is busy having "pajama parties" with Uncle Conman while their membership suffers. :down:

 

[Bob Owens]

This growth. I believe will have its rewards.

As opposed to the growth AA has seen over the last twenty years at the expense of wages and benifits?

We keep hearing how "growth" is going to make things better. Well it hasnt happened yet, unless of course you are talking about the amount of dues the TWU collects thanks to growth.

And dont bother with Koziateks BS excuse that the concessions generated jobs. Thats the same arguement that the antiunion camp uses against raising the minimum wage. Demand for air travel generated jobs, if it didnt happen at AA it would have happened somewhere else.

This is yet another example why we cant afford to not have ownership of our contract. AA wants growth in revenue and profits. The TWU wants growth of dues payers. We want growth in our paychecks. Unfortunately for us the TWU has a better chance of growing their dues base if they help the company pursue their objectives than if they pursue ours. In most unions, even in most TWU Locals if the union does not pursue the goals of the membership the leaders are ousted within three years. The members automatically get the chance to express their satisfaction or dissatisfaction, however at AA the contract is owned and run by the International. They appoint people to run it and the members never automatically get an election.

We need to get rid of the TWU and get ownership of our contract.

 

[High Speed Steel]

The lessons learned at NW? Yeah, only one union has the balls to strike and stand up for our profession. Hint to the blind; its not the twu. The twu is busy having "pajama parties" with Uncle Conman while their membership suffers. :down:

Yes there are those such as yourself. Who are proud of the stance the amfa took, while standing with crutches and ignorant to the fact they were already crippled, before they maimed themselves in the end.

You consider this a victory...

There are those who are "shallow isolationist's", who refuse to see light at the end of a tunnel.

We the members of a union. The TWU. Have suffered cuts and bruises. But in the end, our resolve will have its rewards.

 

[Bob Owens]

There are those who are "shallow isolationist's", who refuse to see light at the end of a tunnel.

Thats not the end of the tunnel you see, its the train.

We the members of a union. The TWU. Have suffered cuts and bruises. But in the end, our resolve will have its rewards.

What an International position?

 

[Hackman]

Yes there are those such as yourself. Who are proud of the stance the amfa took, while standing with crutches and ignorant to the fact they were already crippled, before they maimed themselves in the end.

You consider this a victory...

There are those who are "shallow isolationist's", who refuse to see light at the end of a tunnel.

We the members of a union. The TWU. Have suffered cuts and bruises. But in the end, our resolve will have its rewards.

That's is correct, I am proud of the fight AMFA was forced to fight. They cost NWA management dearly, to the tune of $108 million and hopefully the end of NWA. When it comes the time for you and your beloved company union to fight, (like in 2003, 1995, and so on...) what then??? When your mAAnagement "friends" decide its time to point the big cannon at us, because the twu concessions are not enough. Is it cower and run time again???

When will the line be drawn??? Never??? What resolve??? I have yet to see the twu International stance on recent bone-us bludgeoning of the AA workforce. Why the silence???

Your cowardly servitude is duly noted. Watch out for that bright light in the tunnel wanna-believer, it looks like some High Speed Steel.... 😉 🙄

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

"We the members of a union. The TWU. Have suffered cuts and bruises. But in the end, our resolve will have its rewards."


Cuts and bruises? Members of a union? Resolve?

First: Cuts and bruises will heal over time. What we suffered was the loss of a limb while we were laughed at. Did ANY of your twu international APPOINTED officers suffer any "cuts and bruises"? (Didn't think so.)

Second: Members of a union? Do you mean an INDUSTRIAL union that will not allow a representational election amongst their AMTs or a craft union for AMTs? A union where ALL, local & international officers, are elected by the membership or a union that APPOINTS international officers. (Int. officers who by the way DO NOT receive pay & benefit reductions when the membership does.)

Third: Resolve? Do not confuse resolve with the actions of an extension of human resources. The twu will do what ever the company says it wants. Representational election? OKAY! We will just add a list of dead people to the eligibility list. Concessions? OKAY! We'll just accept the concessions because the international owns/controld the contract. Executive bonuses? OKAY! We will just maybe write a letter and pretend we are angry.

Once again, hss shows his ignorance and cowardice. PRICELESS!