Reasons Why or Why Not To Vote For A Union

[700UW]

Because they wanted the security of a collective bargaining agreement with gauranted pay rate, work rules, benefits, vacation and other things.

They were tired of being employees at will and at the company's mercy.

 

[gonzo]

Questions:

1. Do we, as the new US Airways plan on being a cookie cutter airline based on PAST NMB rulings?

2. The links given previously are great information. Did those groups ASK to be joined into the union or were they essentially kidnapped??

Just still trying to figure this all out. :unsure:

Cookie cutter airline? I don't believe it is so much of a "cookie cutter" airline as it is a repetitive situation that other airlines have incurred. The NMB is bound by the RLA as to what it can and can't do.

Kidnapped? I suppose you could say that the minority in a Democratic vote have been "kidnapped", and the majority are the "kidnappers". 🙂

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Cookie cutter airline? I don't believe it is so much of a "cookie cutter" airline as it is a repetitive situation that other airlines have incurred. The NMB is bound by the RLA as to what it can and can't do.

Kidnapped? I suppose you could say that the minority in a Democratic vote have been "kidnapped", and the majority are the "kidnappers". 🙂

Gonzo, I guess my reference to the cookie cutter airline was more of a question........are we, as the new US Airways going to request from the NMB a NEW ruling based on our situation......make it unique.......and not just follow or be assigned based on past rulings?? Time to break the cycle?? I personally, would like to see that.......a new and unique package of rulings.

And when I said "kidnapped" I was unsure of if those groups had been acreeded into the union or if they had sought out representation.......I know now that they sought out representation. Information is being sought and found.

 

[700UW]

The unions are bound by the precedent setting rulings from the NMB.

The employees do not have to ask the NMB for a ruling, the unions do that or the company.

There are clear established laws, rules and regulations that all have to follow.

The IAM has filed for single carrier status and the ibt has filed an objection, right now it is all in the NMB's hands.

Why do you think the ibt is soliciting cards? They know with the sheer numbers the single carrier status will be granted.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

The unions are bound by the precedent setting rulings from the NMB.

The employees do not have to ask the NMB for a ruling, the unions do that or the company.

There are clear established laws, rules and regulations that all have to follow.

The IAM has filed for single carrier status and the ibt has filed an objection, right now it is all in the NMB's hands.

Why do you think the ibt is soliciting cards? They know with the sheer numbers the single carrier status will be granted.

Answer me this.......what set the precedent in the first place, other rulings, but as far as I know, precedences, like rules, can be changed/ammended. And why couldn't that happen here? Rules, regulations, guidelines are changed all the time, so why not now?

True, single carrier status will be granted at some point but what does that have to do with the IBT soliciting cards??

 

[gonzo]

Answer me this.......what set the precedent in the first place, other rulings, but as far as I know, precedences, like rules, can be changed/ammended. And why couldn't that happen here? Rules, regulations, guidelines are changed all the time, so why not now?

True, single carrier status will be granted at some point but what does that have to do with the IBT soliciting cards??

The NMB would give single carrier status to the IAM, if the only factor was "number of members". The IBT has a right to show a 35% interest in a vote. It's not a delay tactic like the IAM would like to have people believe. It's a normal process.

The NMB has certain criteria that must be met in-order to pass a judgement on any given case. 🙂

 

[700UW]

First of all there are precedents from every merger that has occured between unionized carriers all the through history.

The NMB determines single carrier status.

You can go as far back as Capitol and United, you have Allegheny/Mohawk, TWA/Ozark, US/PI, US/PS, AA/Reno and numerous others.

The ibt is soliciting cards as they know the NMB will grant the IAM single carrier status which means the ibt will be replaced with the IAM and the US/West M&R fall under the IAM CBA. The only way for the ibt to be the bargaining agent after that is to force an election.

Also the gathering of the cards has no bearing on the single carrier status ruling.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

The NMB would give single carrier status to the IAM, if the only factor was "number of members". The IBT has a right to show a 35% interest in a vote. It's not a delay tactic like the IAM would like to have people believe. It's a normal process.

The NMB has certain criteria that must be met in-order to pass a judgement on any given case. 🙂

Then let's do the normal process..........VOTE!!

And as you said, certain criteria (past rulings) must be met to pass a judgement..........things change, situations change and judgements are NOT set in stone and can be made to cover the new changes and situations.

VOTE!!!

 

[700UW]

There is no vote on a single carrier status. The NMB either determines yes, based on sheer numbers which favor the IAM in this case.

And the rulings from the NMB are PRECEDENT setting they dont deviate from them.

The only way the NMB will declare a vote is if the ibt after single carrier status has been granted to the IAM is to seek A-Cards and gather the 35% to call for an election, being the only danger is if 50%+1 dont vote then there will be no union and no CBA. Which just happened to the stock clerks at Allegheny/Piedmont merger, the ibt forced an election and the end result was decertification.

What I find interesting is that you are a non-union person and not involved with what is happening yet you are telling everyone what should happen.

 

[delldude]

well gonzo it seems to me like all your queeries have been answered here in totality in this forum..
hit the nail on the head??
once again its quiet here....must be on the phone with andy again...

 

[AIRWOMAN]

There is no vote on a single carrier status. The NMB either determines yes, based on sheer numbers which favor the IAM in this case.

And the rulings from the NMB are PRECEDENT setting they dont deviate from them.

The only way the NMB will declare a vote is if the ibt after single carrier status has been granted to the IAM is to seek A-Cards and gather the 35% to call for an election, being the only danger is if 50%+1 dont vote then there will be no union and no CBA. Which just happened to the stock clerks at Allegheny/Piedmont merger, the ibt forced an election and the end result was decertification.

What I find interesting is that you are a non-union person and not involved with what is happening yet you are telling everyone what should happen.

I didn't say that single carrier status wouldn't be granted.

Precedent: A case that may serve as an example or model for a future action, procedure, etc.
I'm not an English professor but the word "may" and "model" lean my hopes toward change.

I also understand the vote process and it's pretty sad that the eligible voting members don't vote but if that's the choice they make, they live with the consequences. As it goes with any voting process.

Find this interesting, as I have told you before, I am not currently under a union. But based on this merger and both union contracts and my job..........I may be "acreeded" into the union. So, that is why I am speaking and asking questions. I am NOT tell everyone what should happen. I am stating my opinion and how I would like to see things because as I said, I am not currently a union member (but I was previously so I am not ignorant to unions, union issues and so on), but I would like to be informed and knowledgeable about the situation and then I too, will live with my decisions and the consequences of my actions. I have seen both sides and there is absolutely no reason that I can think of, to not take the opportunity to make things the best that they can be based on the current situation and circumstances.

Do you understand now???

 

[john john]

I didn't say that single carrier status wouldn't be granted.

Precedent: A case that may serve as an example or model for a future action, procedure, etc.
I'm not an English professor but the word "may" and "model" lean my hopes toward change.

I also understand the vote process and it's pretty sad that the eligible voting members don't vote but if that's the choice they make, they live with the consequences. As it goes with any voting process.

Find this interesting, as I have told you before, I am not currently under a union. But based on this merger and both union contracts and my job..........I may be "acreeded" into the union. So, that is why I am speaking and asking questions. I am NOT tell everyone what should happen. I am stating my opinion and how I would like to see things because as I said, I am not currently a union member (but I was previously so I am not ignorant to unions, union issues and so on), but I would like to be informed and knowledgeable about the situation and then I too, will live with my decisions and the consequences of my actions. I have seen both sides and there is absolutely no reason that I can think of, to not take the opportunity to make things the best that they can be based on the current situation and circumstances.

Do you understand now???

What employee group are you in? US/HP agent group are both represented by a union. Why are you being put in a class and craft that is union? What job do you do.AGENTS ARE IN THE UNION...... The agent groups at HP/US already voted to be in a union why have another vote. What does "acreeded" mean?

 

[AIRWOMAN]

What employee group are you in? US/HP agent group are both represented by a union. Why are you being put in a class and craft that is union? What job do you do.AGENTS ARE IN THE UNION...... The agent groups at HP/US already voted to be in a union why have another vote. What does "acreeded" mean?

I am in the Maintenance & Engineering group. Not an agent. We don't know if we will be put into the union or not. That reorganization has not been finalized yet. And the possibility exists because of the Mechanics and Related IAM contract and it's definitions.

Accreeded/accretion......"growth or increase in size, as by external additions." So that means you can be added to the union......and again, the reorg is not finalized but the possibility exists.

 

[700UW]

Well if US/East has your classification and it is under the IAM CBA, you will then fall under the IAM and the CBA if single carrier status is granted.

 

[AIRWOMAN]

Well if US/East has your classification and it is under the IAM CBA, you will then fall under the IAM and the CBA if single carrier status is granted.

And what if the IBT is the successor??