REJECT

Well now the mechanics have to consider if they want the IAM to represent their interests should they end up in BK court. My feeling would be definitly not because at this point the organization would rather see you get hit real hard so they probably will not put forward a good arguement as to why mechanics should not agree to deep long term concessions. Remember that the IAM suggested that you accept this deal. They will consider you to blame for the rejection of the ATSB guarantee, the fact that they will have to use up resurces to renegotiate deals for all its other IAM represented workers, and they may lose their board seats along with the perks that go with them (dont Board members get free positive space seats?).

AMFA put forth a good arguement during the NWA negotiations concerning the under payment of aircraft mechanics. Those arguements could be of use if you end up in BK court. Your best bet may be to change unions and file for an election right away so that the challenge is in place as the BK proceedings begin. This could also stall the process. With a challenge in place how could a judge deal with either party when they may not be the legitimate representative? So far all the traffic reports I've read indicate that demand is slowly returning. Some airlines are at about mid point between 2000 and 2001 traffic.
 
Well now the mechanics have to consider if they want the IAM to represent their interests should they end up in BK court. My feeling would be definitly not because at this point the organization would rather see you get hit real hard so they probably will not put forward a good arguement as to why mechanics should not agree to deep long term concessions. Remember that the IAM suggested that you accept this deal. They will consider you to blame for the rejection of the ATSB guarantee, the fact that they will have to use up resurces to renegotiate deals for all its other IAM represented workers, and they may lose their board seats along with the perks that go with them (dont Board members get free positive space seats?).

AMFA put forth a good arguement during the NWA negotiations concerning the under payment of aircraft mechanics. Those arguements could be of use if you end up in BK court. Your best bet may be to change unions and file for an election right away so that the challenge is in place as the BK proceedings begin. This could also stall the process. With a challenge in place how could a judge deal with either party when they may not be the legitimate representative? So far all the traffic reports I've read indicate that demand is slowly returning. Some airlines are at about mid point between 2000 and 2001 traffic.
 
[P][FONT size=4][BIG class=pr]Reuters[/BIG][BR][/FONT][SPAN class=t]US rejects United Airlines bid for loan guarantee[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=tt]Wednesday December 4, 5:44 pm ET[/SPAN]
[P]
[DIV class=ar]WASHINGTON, Dec 4 (Reuters) - The federal government on Wednesday rejected an application by United Airlines for a $1.8 billion loan guarantee the company said was crucial for avoiding bankruptcy.
[P]The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, set up to help airlines struggling financially after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, voted 2 to 1 to not accept United's loan guarantee bid.
[P]







The decision came one day before mechanics at the No. 2 airline were to vote again on concessions that are part of a $5.2 billion give-back package the airline has negotiated with its unions.
[P]United, a unit of UAL Corp. (NYSE:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ual&d=t"]UAL[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/u/ual.html"]News[/A]) , had counted on the loan guarantee to support 90 percent of $2 billion in private financing it hoped to get from its banks. The company planned to use that money to repay debt and help fund operations, while it overhauled its operations outside bankruptcy court.
[P]UAL shares closed up 7 cents, or 2.3 percent, to $3.12 on the New York Stock Exchange.
[P][/P][/DIV][BR clear=all]
 
[P][FONT size=4][BIG class=pr]Reuters[/BIG][BR][/FONT][SPAN class=t]US rejects United Airlines bid for loan guarantee[/SPAN][BR][SPAN class=tt]Wednesday December 4, 5:44 pm ET[/SPAN]
[P]
[DIV class=ar]WASHINGTON, Dec 4 (Reuters) - The federal government on Wednesday rejected an application by United Airlines for a $1.8 billion loan guarantee the company said was crucial for avoiding bankruptcy.
[P]The Air Transportation Stabilization Board, set up to help airlines struggling financially after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, voted 2 to 1 to not accept United's loan guarantee bid.
[P]







The decision came one day before mechanics at the No. 2 airline were to vote again on concessions that are part of a $5.2 billion give-back package the airline has negotiated with its unions.
[P]United, a unit of UAL Corp. (NYSE:[A href="http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=ual&d=t"]UAL[/A] - [A href="http://biz.yahoo.com/n/u/ual.html"]News[/A]) , had counted on the loan guarantee to support 90 percent of $2 billion in private financing it hoped to get from its banks. The company planned to use that money to repay debt and help fund operations, while it overhauled its operations outside bankruptcy court.
[P]UAL shares closed up 7 cents, or 2.3 percent, to $3.12 on the New York Stock Exchange.
[P][/P][/DIV][BR clear=all]
 
[blockquote]
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On 12/4/2002 5:13:55 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Start writing to your local representatives on both the State and Feceral level.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I suppose you spelled it that way on purpose.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 5:13:55 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Start writing to your local representatives on both the State and Feceral level.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I suppose you spelled it that way on purpose.
 
I hope you can still avoid CH11, because it has been a big bucket of "stuff" over here at USAirways. You think things can't get any worse and bingo, the next day it gets worse! At least I am volutarily out of the industry in 26 days.
 
I hope you can still avoid CH11, because it has been a big bucket of "stuff" over here at USAirways. You think things can't get any worse and bingo, the next day it gets worse! At least I am volutarily out of the industry in 26 days.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 4:58:35 PM DCT JVL wrote:

It kills me that the US subsidizes Amtrak to the tune of millions of real dollars each year for no appreciable gain, yet the US can't see fit to help us borrow money to help keep the nation's second largest airline out of Chapter 11.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Most other forms of mass transit also receive subsidies, either from the locality or the feds. Only the airlines have been put under such scrutiny.

Start writing to your local representatives on both the State and Federal level.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 4:58:35 PM DCT JVL wrote:

It kills me that the US subsidizes Amtrak to the tune of millions of real dollars each year for no appreciable gain, yet the US can't see fit to help us borrow money to help keep the nation's second largest airline out of Chapter 11.
----------------
[/blockquote]

Most other forms of mass transit also receive subsidies, either from the locality or the feds. Only the airlines have been put under such scrutiny.

Start writing to your local representatives on both the State and Federal level.
 
What an ugly time in this industry

When was it ever any different.

"This is a nasty, rotten buisness,,," (Robert Crandall, former head of AA)
 
What an ugly time in this industry

When was it ever any different.

"This is a nasty, rotten buisness,,," (Robert Crandall, former head of AA)
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 5:18:35 PM DCT JVL wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 5:13:55 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Start writing to your local representatives on both the State and Feceral level.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I suppose you spelled it that way on purpose.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Yeah, beginning with dubya.
 
[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 5:18:35 PM DCT JVL wrote:

[blockquote]
----------------
On 12/4/2002 5:13:55 PM Bob Owens wrote:


Start writing to your local representatives on both the State and Feceral level.
----------------
[/blockquote]

I suppose you spelled it that way on purpose.

----------------
[/blockquote]

Yeah, beginning with dubya.
 
sfb;

One thing that I would like to add is that lower wages should not be considered a "viable business plan". Lower labor costs can be acheived through other means such as improving effeciency and productivity. I feel that Uniteds biggest flaw was that they were going straight after their employees paychecks instead of trying any and every thing else first. I read where they have over 175 vice presidents! They hire a new boss, with no experience in the industry and throw nearly $4million at him before he does anything! Things are way out of wack in this country.