Reports of up to 20 wounded in shooting in San Bernardino, California

[Ifly2]

"Dude, probably your best post."

So, is the West, and particularly the American public, ready to occupy the entire Muslim world for a couple of centuries, and most importantly, to invest the time effort and resources (money...) necessary to "win the hearts and minds" of enough generations of them to change(defeat...) the ideology?

It is not even all about Islam. That is too simplistic a view. The thinking and ideology and cultural/political/ sociological/psychological patterns are definitely intertwined with and inseperable from Islam, but were much established long before The Prophet showed up, and before the Shia/Sunni split that is the root of so much of the instability.

Just like the Roman influence on The Catholic Church, and vice versa, the arrival of Islam didn't erase or replace society, they changed each other and produced a new "reality".

We are not gonna' change that in "five days, five weeks, or five months..."

This war is not an exclusively military endeavour.

There is a social component, that will be the real determinant of "victory".

Are "we" reqdy to do what that takes?

 

[townpete]

"Dude, probably your best post."

So, is the West, and particularly the American public, ready to occupy the entire Muslim world for a couple of centuries, and most importantly, to invest the time effort and resources (money...) necessary to "win the hearts and minds" of enough generations of them to change(defeat...) the ideology?

It is not even all about Islam. That is too simplistic a view. The thinking and ideology and cultural/political/ sociological/psychological patterns are definitely intertwined with and inseperable from Islam, but were much established long before The Prophet showed up, and before the Shia/Sunni split that is the root of so much of the instability.

Just like the Roman influence on The Catholic Church, and vice versa, the arrival of Islam didn't erase or replace society, they changed each other and produced a new "reality".

We are not gonna' change that in "five days, five weeks, or five months..."

This war is not an exclusively military endeavour.

There is a social component, that will be the real determinant of "victory".

Are "we" reqdy to do what that takes?

 
And the alternative is what?
 
Bend over and take it?

 

[700UW]

And the alternative is what?
 
Bend over and take it?

The board doesn't need to know about your sex life.

 

[townpete]

The board doesn't need to know about your sex life.

 
lol
 
Another backhanded homophobe comment from the pro homo LWNJ.

 

[delldude]

Figure out a way to defeat the ideology

Otherwise, it's The Crusades all over again.

Historically speaking. Western forces won the war. No one stuck around to colonize Jerusalem and the reat of the conquered Arab/Islamic lands. The Muslims bide their time, defeated, but with no reason to change. A few generations later (~200 years...) , the western armies and occupiers returned home, having effected no real change amongst the conquered people, paving the way for 650 years of Muslim rule.

Sound even a little bit familiar?

 
No, it's the Crusades still.
 

They could live their lives in fear, if they choose to be afraid.

 
What's wrong with constant vigilance?
 

Typical response from some one hoping for carnage.

 
Or someone seeing the abject failure of those elected to stop this. What else does one expect from these people?
 

Are "we" reqdy to do what that takes?

 
Absolutely not. Never will. Islam demonstrates almost daily its destiny to be the only religion and its lack of willingness to live among others rules of law.

 

[Dog Wonder]

 
And the alternative is what?
 
Bend over and take it?

Troll the internet?

 

[Ifly2]

And the alternative is what?
 
Bend over and take it?

No one ever suggested that...

What made you think of it?

(That is a Question, Not a "witty" double entendre...)

 

[Ifly2]

"seeing the abject failure of those elected to stop this. What else does one expect from these people?"

"Abject failure" is arguable, and that goes for every administration in the last 100 years when it comes to this part of the world.

This admin was not elected to "stop this".

If by "this" you mean ISIS, or even the general mess in the ME.

Every president in my adult lifetime has made "Peace in tje ME" a prioroty.

Shouldn't have to ask or point out how that has gone. With the exception of Carter and Egypt-Israel, _there_ is your "abject failure".

And pretty much to be expected.

How exactly does one impose peace on the warring sons of Ibrahim, and on those of The Prophet?

 

[delldude]

“I, Barack Hussein Obama, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability,preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
 

 

[townpete]

 

[777 fixer]

so what's your solution? stick your head in the sand and hope they leave us alone?

And what do you suggest?  Send in the troops?  I'm sure the 82nd or the First Marine division could take Mosul relatively quickly.  The problem is how many Americans are you willing to sacrifice to that meat grinder over there? Once we take Mosul then what?  Stay and have the area become another Mecca for jihadi's?  Or leave and have the Shia militias and Sunni militants move right into the vacuum we leave behind.
 
You also seem to be ignoring the fact that sending the troops in is not going to prevent another San Bernadino from happening.

 

[delldude]

Good point, once we have these incidents become SOP in the good ol' USA,  you make sure you lock and load and put on your vest when getting out of your car at the mall or call for air cover to clear the way to the mall entrance.

 

[700UW]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/more-80-percent-guns-used-mass-shootings-obtained-legally-n474441

 

[delldude]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/san-bernardino-shooting/more-80-percent-guns-used-mass-shootings-obtained-legally-n474441

 
looks like the background checks work then.

 

[777 fixer]

Good point, once we have these incidents become SOP in the good ol' USA,  you make sure you lock and load and put on your vest when getting out of your car at the mall or call for air cover to clear the way to the mall entrance.

 
How exactly would sending in the troops prevent people from going on a rampage here?  I'll answer that one for you, it won't.  And as been stated numerous times before ISIS exists because we were there in the first place.  Also the vast majority of mass shootings in this country have nothing to do with ISIS.