Revenue Advantage

[WorldTraveler]

then show us the muscle.

and also show us the revenues that go with the ASMs AA currently flies.

it is purely a pipe dream to think that AA will keep pumping capacity into LAX when it is underperforming DL and UA as much as it does.

put the whole subject on ignore and come back when you have some actual facts to back up your hope of what AA will do and not just hang on to some fantasy that AA will keep dumping capacity into a market so that it doesn't end up like it did in NYC.

and again, based on the latest data, UA, not AA boards the most local and total revenue at LAX, not AA even including US.

DL is the largest int'l airline and the largest carrier to Latin America and Asia and DL is growing the fastest of the big 4 in both of these regions.

and given the enormous financial crisis that is brewing in Brazil, it is more likely that the LAX-GRU will be cut at least in frequency than that AA will be expanding. You do realize there are nationwide protests planned in Brazil this weekend from those that are very afraid of where Brazil is going economically and politically? that will all take a toll on travel demand from Brazil which is the largest AA market in Latin America, AA's largest int'l region.

 

[topDawg]

 
Here are some observations which I know are going to upset your world view.
 
When LAWA ran a study to justify its investment in the T4 connector, particularly the link between the T4 BHS and the TBIT BHS, it found that most of the transit passengers arriving at TBIT are connecting to and from an AA flight in T4.  So, even if SkyTeam is larger in terms of total seats, it is nevertheless true that AA's LAX operation benefits more from its alliance partners than Delta's.
 
To determine the space allocations for lounges in the new TBIT, LAWA relied in part on the number of premium seats each alliance offers in the market.  The oneworld lounge is about 3 times the size of the SkyTeam lounge.  As it turns out, LAWA may have underestimated the space allocation for oneworld, which is why it is quite likely that AA will end up building its own lounge in the new TBIT.  (Don't worry I am sure Delta can see when that happens.)
 
As to LAX's international airline, it is quite silly to call DL that when it still only competes on the periphery at LAX.  Up until recently, it didn't fly to LHR.  It does not partner with the top international airlines at LAX, ...QF, CX, and BA.  As an LA resident, I can tell you that Delta's profile in the market is not nearly as triumphant as you make it out to be.  To many of us here, it is still the airline to/from Atlanta and that is not a good thing.

Hey WorldTraveler.....**** i mean LDV when was this study done? 
 
Me thinks you are leaving out some important info here.......... 

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's also not true.

LAWA doesn't look at anything other than total passengers... they like other airports don't really care about revenues that board the aircraft because airports don't get a cut of it.

to argue that oneworld is more important even though Skyteam carriers more passengers it the height of asinine.

 

[jcw]

So let's go through the math - alliance rankings in LA are as follows based upon 2014 passenger counts:
 
#1 Star Alliance
#2 One World
#3 Sky Team
 
tough one

 

[WorldTraveler]

show your math specifically for int'l ops.

alliances mean nothing in the domestic market besides what the domestic carrier can do.

it's kind of like arguing that Skyteam is the largest carrier in France or Lufthansa is in Germany.

not exactly an accomplishment.

 

[jcw]

it's also not true.

LAWA doesn't look at anything other than total passengers... they like other airports don't really care about revenues that board the aircraft because airports don't get a cut of it.

to argue that oneworld is more important even though Skyteam carriers more passengers it the height of asinine.

 
So let's see you indicate that Sky Team carries more than One World in your last statement - it's factually inaccurate the numbers prove you wrong
 
Do the math - it's very easy

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, if you actually looked at DOT data which lists ALL carriers, you would find you are incorrect.

further, as has been mentioned a million times, AA carries LESS LOCAL LAX revenue than UA even when US is included and AA's local average fare is below both DL and UA.

all AA does is operate at HUB at LAX and connect a higher percentage of passengers but carry less local revenue in the process.

DL and UA have focused their LAX operations on the most lucrative LAX passengers and do not need to connect near as many passengers over LAX.

if it makes you feel good that AA ties up gates at LAX to connect passengers that other carriers connect elsewhere, then don't let me or anyone else rain on your parade.

 

[jcw]

Actually you just need to look at LAX reports which gives every airline and simple math sky team is dead last

Obviously the facts don't support you fantasy

Tough one

 

[WorldTraveler]

and again you can't seem to understand that when it comes to maximizing profits - which is what for profit companies do and not push people thru airports, DL and UA do a far better job of maximizing revenue.
 
unless you can show us how AA benefits by shoving more passengers thru LAX but getting less revenue, then your trophy is worthless.
 
DL and UA focus on serving the most valuable segments of the local market. 
 
AA pushes lower yielding domestic, Latin, and TPAC passengers thru LAX.
 
the only global segment where AA outperforms WRT revenue is to Europe - on their now two flights/day to LHR. 
 
the thread title is your fantasy... the reality is your nightmare.... UA has the revenue advantage, followed by DL, with AA dead last of the 3 biggies at LAX. 

 

[jcw]

and again you can't seem to understand that when it comes to maximizing profits - which is what for profit companies do and not push people thru airports, DL and UA do a far better job of maximizing revenue.
 
unless you can show us how AA benefits by shoving more passengers thru LAX but getting less revenue, then your trophy is worthless.
 
DL and UA focus on serving the most valuable segments of the local market. 
 
AA pushes lower yielding domestic, Latin, and TPAC passengers thru LAX.
 
the only global segment where AA outperforms WRT revenue is to Europe - on their now two flights/day to LHR. 
 
the thread title is your fantasy... the reality is your nightmare.... UA has the revenue advantage, followed by DL, with AA dead last of the 3 biggies at LAX.

Great to see you practicing switching topics

Now you have moved from size of alliances at LAX to profitability

So great you can't handle the facts so now you change the subjects

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, I am saying what I have said all along.
 
Size is great but if size doesn't lead to profitability, it means nothing to a for-profit company.
 
and you still can't accept that I never doubted that AA in total was larger at LAX... it just fills its size with low yield domestic, TPAC, and S. America traffic compared to DL and UA. 
 
you do remember that is the exact strategy that US used to Europe and that is why Parker has taken the axe to CLT's int'l network and why AA had to shrunk its entire TATL network by 10% over the winter. 

 

[MAH4546]

WorldTraveller gets desperate at times.
 
The data doesn't validate anything. At no hub other than LAX has AA done significant cross-fleeting. The entire large RJ operation at LAX switched from PMAA to PMUS.
 
It does not validate that AA would be third sans merger, when a huge chunk of the operation moved to US because of the merger. 
 
But hey, this is the same guy that believes Delta has access to TBIT gates.

 

[topDawg]

WorldTraveller gets desperate at times.
 
The data doesn't validate anything. At no hub other than LAX has AA done significant cross-fleeting. The entire large RJ operation at LAX switched from PMAA to PMUS.
 
It does not validate that AA would be third sans merger, when a huge chunk of the operation moved to US because of the merger. 
 
But hey, this is the same guy that believes Delta has access to TBIT gates.

couldn't be because they do would it? 
 
might what to see what happens to any arrival at T2, T4, T5, T6/7 happens when those respective FIS's close...... (i know this because I have used TBIT FIS on Delta probably as much as I have T5 or T6/7) 

 

[FWAAA]

couldn't be because they do would it? 
 
might what to see what happens to any arrival at T2, T4, T5, T6/7 happens when those respective FIS's close...... (i know this because I have used TBIT FIS on Delta probably as much as I have T5 or T6/7)

MAH4546 isn't talking about international arrivals at TBIT; he is talking about AA's four preferential-use gates at TBIT that will enable AA to schedule departures, international or domestic, from those four gates. Deltawill have no ability to schedule departures from any TBIT gates while AA will be able to run 40 or more departures from its four gates.

 

[topDawg]

MAH4546 isn't talking about international arrivals at TBIT; he is talking about AA's four preferential-use gates at TBIT that will enable AA to schedule departures, international or domestic, from those four gates. Deltawill have no ability to schedule departures from any TBIT gates while AA will be able to run 40 or more departures from its four gates.

Ah okay. Not the way i read it my bad. 
 
T5 FIS has pretty limited hours so a fair amount of the Mexico/LatinAM flying uses TBIT. Pretty sure HND uses it too.