Seigel says wants to get new "quick" agreement with Mechanics

[chipmunn]

DAr WRench:

Dark Wrench said: Why should i help my next employer pay me less?

Chip answers: Dark, the odds indicate if this airline fails your next job will not be at a major airline. Every airline has AMT's unemployed, AMR & UAL just announced a 9 percent reduction in ASM's with furloughs likely, CAL announced another 4 percent cut in capacity, and airline furloughs will likely exceed over 100,000 people. Where do you intend to go to make the money and have the benefits you do know in this business?

Voting no because some members do not like their representatives is not the arena to make union change. How can this be accomplished with the airline out of business?

Chip

 

[Dark Wrench]

"Where do you intend to go to make the money and have the benefits you do know in this business?"

That's just it what i have "now".


"Voting no because some members do not like their representatives is not the arena to make union change."

This is no concern of yours. Did I tell you how to vote on your proposal? Did all of the ALPA membership vote yes? Were there any ALPA members that felt they were sold out?

"How can this be accomplished with the airline out of business?"

Working for less or not working at all has the same outcome for me.
House, car, lifestyle gone.
So why should I care.

Now don't try to lecture me on living beyond my means, I am not the one in BK court. (nor will I be)
Save that lecture for dave next time he rides your jumpseat.

 

[rd57sfo]

If you have any doubts about who the "I"am "A"a "M" machanic stands for, attend a meeting at #1781, Burlingame,CA. to set you straight.

The leaders of the IAM are machanics and are for the machanics.

Groups like U F/S are a second or third thought except at Locals such as #1776 PHL where they have the numbers to take over the local.

I voted "no" on the re-structure plan and I'm not surprised it passed because we have a weak and fractured F/S membership at U.

The U machanics and related will get a better deal because they always have the resources and the IAM leadership behind them. []

 

[A320 Driver]

Allot of other employees feel they still make too much for to little productivity and that is one of this airlines troubles.

Simfixer;Pitguy;Athena
I Never look down my nose at the other groups...NEVER. I was responding to the quote above. I get tired of folks blaming the pilots and our salaries for the company's whoes. I worked hard to get here (as you probably did), we just took different paths to different careers. We have signed NOTHING but concessionary contracts for over a decade. We used to work 12 days a month. Now it's 17 to 20 for a full block. Thats also around the clock, 24 hour days. We don't go home when the shift is over. We go to the hotel so we can start the process over again when we are legal. Darn few of those cushy layovers left. I don't begrudge you your pay and benefits...don't begrudge me mine. My paycut was 38% W2 so don't think I got away with anything. BTW, in our last contract we gave away vacation instead of pay. I know what it means to loose pay and benefits. We've done it for years.

 

[simfixer]

"Chip comments: The pilot group makes up 10 percent of the workforce, 30 percent of the labor expense, and provided 60 percent of the concessions. The pilot group giveback is greater than any other stakeholder for 10 percent of the employees."

Chip,
Maybe thats because the pilots have been sucking the company dry with work rules and "quality of life" scams for years. You know how the pilots like to complain about W&G? That's the same way most of the rest of the company feels about the pilots. It's just like your buddy Dave says, those who take more have to give back more. You wouldn't want to argue with Dave would you? Besides, if The company recovers and the economy picks up, your 20% of the company will be worth so much that it should more than pay back your pay cut. Read my lips, no pay cut. Also, doesn't the company bear some of the responsibilty for the mechanics rejection of the concession package by filling it with pork? I thought the idea was to increase efficency and save money.

A320 Driver,
You are the type of person that give pilots a bad reputation. In my experience from years of working with USAirways pilots, I would say we have an excellent group of professional pilots that do their jobs exceptionaly well and show respect for their fellow employees. Then someone like you comes along and tears down the goodwill that has been built by your peers. It seems as though you think being able to fly an A320 is quite a feat. Every day of the year, after working all night on complex electronic or software problems, sim engineers preflight (start, fly in various configs, land, etc.) whatever type of simulator (b727,b757,b737300,b737200,DC9,Dash8,A320,A330)we happened to be assigned to that day. Do I go spouting off to pilots that I can do their jobs but they can't do mine? No. I respect their place in our company and understand that there is a high degree of responsibility flying an aluminum tube filled with people around. I have also seen guys bust check rides and understand the additional pressure that the pilots are under. They deserve to be well compensated, but their contract had way too much pork. From what I have read from some of the mechanics on this board, one of the reasons the voted down their concession package is because of the pork it contained, such as pushbacks and a chunk of cash to the IAM international. The mechanics should be commended for rejecting this pork. The company was in error for making a proposal containing these items in the first place. Try to have a little more respect and consideration for your fellow employees, no matter what they do, they deserve it.

 

[pitguy]

Even though you may not have realized it. The mechanics where asked to give up over 20% in hard w-2 cash not including bonuses. Plus tons of workrule changes. Please remember now we make a small fraction of what the millionaires of the cockpit make. One thing I can not understand is why an airline pays a guy flying a 70 - 90 seat RJ makes "X" amount of dollars, but when the same guy is flying a slightly bigger mainline aircraft he is made into a millionaire at several times the "X" payrate. It seams to me that the pilots of the future could be brought down to more of an RJ rate, or at least a little more reasonable. If not we may not have a company to provide for our families if there is not some kind of responsible compensation here. Oh my a scab did appear from my cut.

 

[A320 Driver]

I feel sorry for you. I'll fly em, you fix em and leave my paycheck out of it.

A320 Driver

 

[pitguy]

Oh......I don't understand. You have so much to say about others though, and I value your input. Remember it is all about saving this place. We need to help each other. Do you guys still get paid NOT to fly???? I would think flying 20 days a month is very rare, or if it not rare then we still have way too many pilots. I don't understand. Maybe that is something for the comapny to look into. Some say that it is the best part time job in the world.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 8/30/2002 641 PM

Oh......I don't understand. You have so much to say about others though, and I value your input. Remember it is all about saving this place. We need to help each other. Do you guys still get paid NOT to fly???? I would think flying 20 days a month is very rare, or if it not rare then we still have way too many pilots. I don't understand. Maybe that is something for the comapny to look into. Some say that it is the best part time job in the world.
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Man, you REALLY don't get it. working 20 days a month means ONLY BEING HOME 10 days a month. Who in hell would do that? I wouldn't do that for any amount of money, since my job is only a means to support my family. You guys griping about pilot salaries HAVE NO CLUE! Pilot's make MORE than what U pays just about everywhere. U pilots are NOT overpaid and that's all there is to it. Can't say the same for some other groups that clearly make more than industry standard wages and benies. If you don't like what you're doing, then change it! ...and don't let the door hit you in the backside on the way out![]

 

[oldiebutgoody]

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On 8/30/2002 9:24:59 PM

Oh please. Your right they are underpaid and everyone else is over paid. So when the say that the companies labor costs are to high then they are not talking about the pilots too? Remember some pilot types come into the message boards that are meant for other labor groups and the cry and whine how the other groups are killing the company, so they should be willing to take on a little feedback. Ever hear the saying "Can dish it out, but can't take any back". Hey I am the last guy that wants some pilot to have to sell his beach condo, or have to give up his wife's Mercedes suv and her not being able to be a professional shopper. Bottom line is if you want to give advice be willing to get some back. These guys still left allot of mistrust some others for what they did 10 years ago. Some things you never forget. Hey and if it pays so bad here, you can always go work where it pays better.

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You're the one saying Pilots should work more and earn less. I didn't start THAT discussion. Do you think that the guys doing admin and clerical work at the hospital gripe about what doctors make? I'll bet not! And for YOUR information, most pilots have as much education and training as Doctors. Some ARE doctors. I, personally, went to 6 years of college, have a Master's degree, and could be employed in a number of fields, I chose this one. If YOU don't like where you're at, then GO GET AN EDUCATION! Stop throwing barbs at people and their professions for what they make. PILOTS EARN EVERY DIME! Part of the reason the career of pilot pays well and has relatively good benefits is to attract the best, brightest, most educated and professional people. With the present trend in this industry, I sure hope that my kids don't want to be pilots (or anything else in aviation for that matter). I fear for the future of aviation, and the pilot profession in general, when I think about who in their right mind would choose this job, with the amount of education, training, and career pitfalls. I still enjoy it, but it isn't at all what it used to be!

 

[pitguy]

Oh please. Your right they are underpaid and everyone else is over paid. So when the say that the companies labor costs are to high then they are not talking about the pilots too? Remember some pilot types come into the message boards that are meant for other labor groups and the cry and whine how the other groups are killing the company, so they should be willing to take on a little feedback. Ever hear the saying "Can dish it out, but can't take any back". Hey I am the last guy that wants some pilot to have to sell his beach condo, or have to give up his wife's Mercedes suv and her not being able to be a professional shopper. Bottom line is if you want to give advice be willing to get some back. These guys still left allot of mistrust some others for what they did 10 years ago. Some things you never forget. Hey and if it pays so bad here, you can always go work where it pays better.