Station Weight & Balance VS Centralized Load Planning (CLP)

[sharktooth]

I dont know where your info comes from but planes rarely if ever sit waiting for numbers more than 5 to 10 min.

You don't work the cockpit out of PHL much, do you? It is more likely 20 to 30 minutes.

If longer its usually because someone in either ops or c/s didnt close out there part. The CLP system is user friendly.

"user friendly" for you or for the people using it, the flight deck crews? Overall, it is a crappy system. Rarely gives an optimised solution. Starting out, it needs to be generated from the takeoff station. Flight deck crews _need_ to be brought into the decision-making process. Until that happens, the costs are tremendous.

Case in point: Frankfort, Germany. Additional thirteen pax showed up. Decision made to pull 473 lbs of luggage off the aircraft. Had they contacted the flight deck crew, they would have found out that we were 500 lbs light on fuel and there was no need to pull bags. Richard Craniums.

Its also a virtually paperless system. Mapper is too much of a step backwards. When it comes right down to it though it will be about what is the cheapest. So far thats what Ive seen for the West leaders if its cheap its better.

Cheapness is a term that is only relevant to intelligent auditors. Stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny (as we do with W&B) is hardly a way to run a successful business.

The system sucks, big time.

 

[diogenes]

Again, FWIW, there was a computerized w&b program under station control before SABRE.

It worked like a charm, and you could coordinate with the crew/dispatch/fueler/ air cargo/whomever.

And, you bypassed the "pin the delay on station/CLP" game - always worthwhile!

No reason not to go back to it. Then the whole onus is on the station, where it belongs.

 

[Weight&Balance]

Again, FWIW, there was a computerized w&b program under station control before SABRE.

It worked like a charm, and you could coordinate with the crew/dispatch/fueler/ air cargo/whomever.

And, you bypassed the "pin the delay on station/CLP" game - always worthwhile!

No reason not to go back to it. Then the whole onus is on the station, where it belongs.

Diogenes,
You hit it right on the head. If the station has to fix the problem then let them plan the flight from the start just like it was in the days of Pacer and W&B.

 

[No2CLP]

You don't work the cockpit out of PHL much, do you? It is more likely 20 to 30 minutes.
"user friendly" for you or for the people using it, the flight deck crews? Overall, it is a crappy system. Rarely gives an optimised solution. Starting out, it needs to be generated from the takeoff station. Flight deck crews _need_ to be brought into the decision-making process. Until that happens, the costs are tremendous.

Case in point: Frankfort, Germany. Additional thirteen pax showed up. Decision made to pull 473 lbs of luggage off the aircraft. Had they contacted the flight deck crew, they would have found out that we were 500 lbs light on fuel and there was no need to pull bags. Richard Craniums.
Cheapness is a term that is only relevant to intelligent auditors. Stepping over a dollar to pick up a penny (as we do with W&B) is hardly a way to run a successful business.

The system sucks, big time.

I totally agree with you on this. I think the choice should be realign the load planner job back to the stations on the east side as it they are on the west side.
The station load planner knows what he/she has to do get the job done and who to communicate with not hiding in their empire in PIT. h34r:

 

[BLACKSUNSHINE]

I've worked under both systems. I have NEVER had to wait for the NUMBERS using is station wb. with clp however.....sigh

 

[diogenes]

It's much smarter business to give the folks on the scene and directly responsible for operations the authority to go with it.

If there were no CLP,they'd never get blamed for delays.

And, the w&b would still get done.

 

[Weight&Balance]

It's much smarter business to give the folks on the scene and directly responsible for operations the authority to go with it.

If there were no CLP,they'd never get blamed for delays.

And, the w&b would still get done.

Diogenes,
You hit the nail on the head. If the stations were to control the load planning even with the software CLP has at least we would be able to react faster to problems that could arise. The load planner and ramp agent or lead who is point of contact for loading the cargo would be held accountable for any issues. Not running away from the issues and blaming others like we have now.

 

[Weight&Balance]

I've worked under both systems. I have NEVER had to wait for the NUMBERS using is station wb. with clp however.....sigh

Blackshine you have a good point also. I think if the company was to use the software advances at the station level and have the ramp and pax service call their numbers to the local W&B this would greatly reduce the problems with waiting on the runway for W&B

 

[kao]

Blackshine you have a good point also. I think if the company was to use the software advances at the station level and have the ramp and pax service call their numbers to the local W&B this would greatly reduce the problems with waiting on the runway for W&B

does anyone know when the anticipated date is for this to happen? I am understanding it is kind of "last" on the list...

 

[Henderfuzz]

Putting the w/b back into the stations does not mean it will be better. Maybe a little more control of loads and other issiues. But like anything else as in the the current system it requires communication between the ramp and c/s.
As I said before thats where a lot of breakdowns occur now.
Im not defending the CLP system per se however if everyone does his or her job properly it does work very well.


]

 

[Henderfuzz]

One other item I might add. If this system is so bad than why does the worlds largest airline use basically the same one. Our w/b system was based on the one AA uses.
I wonder if they have the same kind of problems and issuies.
The only problem I can forsee with the current system is when they try and merge the 2 computer systems.
Shares and sabre.
I wish we were keeping sabe all across the board.
but I understand that its all about whats cheaper not whats the most advanced.

 

[Weight&Balance]

Henderfuzz,
American has the top of the line software for the load planning system .Unlike cheapo USAirways' watered down version. AA also has issues with the CLP system but not a frequent as ours. h34r:

 

[No2CLP]

Henderfuzz,
American has the top of the line software for the load planning system .Unlike cheapo USAirways' watered down version. AA also has issues with the CLP system but not a frequent as ours. h34r:

Can someone please tell me why CLP will not make a decision regarding overweight issues on our aircraft. If they are the load planners should they not control the load
planning process of the flight? They should decide the best corrective measure IE: speaking with the dispatcher/crew about fuel reductions and decreasing the
issue of removing people from the flight or their bags.There is not greater way to piss passengers off than have them board and then be told to deplane or remove their bags and watch them go nuts! Why does West side weight and balance handle the flight better than the east side.Maybe we should take the techonlogy of CLP and move it back into the station operations hands h34r: (union of course) and have those people in charge of load planning stand responsible for their decisions just like the West side load planners.

 

[Flufdriver]

...I kind of like taxiing out and "Weighting for Balance" ...ka-ching........I love the cheapo program. DON'T buy the good one, this one works fine!!

 

[Weight&Balance]

h34r:

...I kind of like taxiing out and "Weighting for Balance" ...ka-ching........I love the cheapo program. DON'T buy the good one, this one works fine!!

LOL...I like that Weighting for Balance. The sad thing is the pilots or dispatcher call the stations to find out why the flight has no takeoff data (W&B). You hardly hear from CLP the only time they call is when the dispatcher gets p****d and calls them and raises hell. Most of the times it is simple the ramp or passenger service has not closeout their half . But again the Central load planner is not monitoring the flights as we do on the west side.