Summer T/A Thus Far

[jerseyfinn]

Another day another dollar. No one felt special up there. When a F/A does six a month and has issues with a/c and catering 5/6 there's no "special" feeling on their end. I WISH it was different, I wish that we weren't run by amoral people who award themselves bonuses with money stolen from labor, but we are. So be kind to your F/As, they are actually very nice tired people.

An interesting thread as we fly TA 3-4 times a year for the past 6 years ( MAD 2x & LHR ). Of those 6 to 8 legs, 2/3 will be in Envoy as we purchase a discount Z fare for one leg and either try the miles ( and now cash UG ) or I use CP certs to fill out an itinerary. Objectively speaking, Envoy is indeed a business product and not a top-tier TA first product. That said, when one purchases a Z fare, it's not exactly a bad deal ( UG a coach leg in combination with the Z and I call it a value ride ). A ride up front is definitely better than coach even if Envoy remains a tepid product.

The Envoy product has evolved over the years as those automatic CP row 1 UGs are gone and the equipment remains on it's last legs with IFEs that doen't always work or foot rests that died a long time ago. The food has improved the last couple of years as some clear effort has been made -- and as noted, it remains airline food, but it mostly fits the product niche US is selling here. But US does push the bubble if they think they can skate by when a seat or an IFE doesn't do the job.

We've noticed the decline in attitude of the FAs up front over the years and only occassionaly do we get the professional folks such a Larry and Loki ( I use names here because you all know who they are, and I can attest that they too put up with the same crap that you mention, but they elect to put a different spin on things ). So I'm not tryinig to push back against you Princess as I hear your point and can honestly feel where it comes from. But I just don't buy into 'be kind to your FA because they're beleagured victims who are also nice people '. The job is what you make it despite the problems and protestations which do indeed make some flights a sucky job. You can't control your management or your pax, but one can indeed control the attitude and ethos they bring to the pax. Remember, your pax are as likely to have had a crappy day -- your approach creates a pecking order of conditionalism which spiral downwards for FAs and pax alike.

So please folks, remember that the job is about the service industry and it goes beyond simply handing out a tray or a drink, especially for pax who ante up more bucks for Envoy. Each of us has a choice of what we do or do not bring to the game. When it works, it's satisfying for both parties despite whatever sort of day they've had. Gamble on your pax and doing your job . . . and no, it doesn't put extra money in your pocket, but that's Life. Damn, this sounds like a goody two shoes speech, but I promise that I practice what I preach as I too work in the service industry ( an operating room ) and I'm not exactly the happiest guy in the world . . . but I do not take it out on my patients nor do I hold back when it is in my capacity to do something. I prefer to keep it moving as if I wait long enough, those folks at work who stick it to me end up hitting the wall on their own and if I'm lucky, I get to watch.

Heading out soon to MAD and anticipating a smooth flight and a good experience up front.

regards all,

Barry

 

[phllax]

Loki is THE defination of a class act. Only been on flights when she worked domestic transcon F, usually as the Galley Hag and she always did everything by the book. I think her A's were shocked when she'd pull out the serving cart on the 757 for the ice cream sundae dessert and coffee service!

 

[galley princess]

JerseyFinn,
I definitely do not disagree with your point, I was speaking to what I have observed, not what I practice, but I also realize that I am not in their shoes. I don't work six trips a month and therefore I do not presume to judge their fatigue. It's easy for me to have a good attitude and not let the nonsense get to me, but I will tell you, if there's an odd month where I do fly more than usual, the constant non-functional equipment, the lack of supplies and the "set up for failure" reality does start to grate and then I know it's time to not add that extra trip. Quality control is zero, but I can't explain that to a pax, so I just smile and take their disappointment. That gets old.

I guess what I am trying to say is again, you get what you pay for, and US doesn't pay, if they wanted labor peace, they would pursue it. As an informed customer you have an advantage over those who just click on the cheapest ticket.

Having said all this, we have lovely F/As who do fly six trips a month and manage to stay lovely and provide wonderful service. And BTW, the service is 98% professional amongst all F/As, I was speaking to the "special" quality that pre-merger was easier to expect. That's where having happy employees and a supportive management comes in, without the former you just don't get the latter.

 

[FlyUs]

One of the choices of entree Westbound is Mac -n cheese. Do I really have to say anymore?

Seriously, some of the food is somewhat better, but catering issues are rampant. I realize that Mr. Adler is trying to address service issues, but F/As have to have the supplies to actually DO the service. BTW is the company trying to get to profitability by not providing paper towels to a/c? Every trip I have had in June has been wrought with catering issues, dirty a/c, no lav supplies, 767s that have video, lights and seats non-functional and A330s that are nightmares.

For about five minutes last year it seemed like things were getting a bit beter, now, it's just situational normal AFU.

On another note, if the company thinks that they are going to eke out more service out of the already overworked International crews, they are really delusional. Our staffing is the worst in the industry. The 333-300 is a slave ship with a possessed video system. If you try to do the service as written you run out of EVERYTHING, most particularly water and glasses and you tick all of the pax off because you're in the aisle too long.

One thing is right, the crew DOES make or break a flight, but the reality is, ten years into this bankruptcy contract, there is just too little left of a lot of F/As to even put up a front. Many work waaay too much, and when people who show up perky because they have some kind of sideline or don't need to fly so much, they end up making the rank and file look worse. I know, because I had a Chairman's complain about that very thing to me.

So basically, you will probably get a competent International crew, polite and efficient, but high end service with a smile? Just remember, if AWA wanted it to be different, they would have settled contracts and pursued labor peace. You get what you pay for.

Spot on!! Clap clap clap

 

[Furloughd4now]

I'm sorry, but I just had to reply "overworked International Crew"???? You mean self-serving senior FA??? OMG, 6 trips a month! The horrors!!! :unsure:

They do NOT have to work these trips, they have the benefit of AIL, SAP, and so many other means to work any other trip and not be a slave to the international trips. Oh, so that means you may have to work a 737 trip with 6 legs to Florida and a 9.5 hr RON? I KNOW I won't be seeing you on the tuna can slinging cokes.

However, as an "International FA", you are not subjected to such "menial" work, thats what the RSVs are for ....... right?

We have ONE Division of Flight Attendants now. WE ALL need to make it work.

Rant off ... thanks 😀

 

[VAflyGal]

*standing ovation*

I especially love it when certain people bemoan aches and pains and bad knees and shoulders that need surgery - they check their 4 bags but manage to work 6 trips a month as CSD - Heaven forbid that door has to get opened manually in emergency mode.

It's another mindset - lovely as some may be, they are oblivious and only concerned that they couldn't hold Athens on a Monday.

*seethes*

 

[Furloughd4now]

Why do you think they changed recurrent to make it more 'private" and "1 on 1"????

3 Guesses first 2 don't count!

Pathetic! VAGirl I hope we get to fly it 1 day! We may have already but I'll never tell 😀

In the meantime, work it TA FAs! Oh btw, because we are so short on FAs in bases you will go understaffed, so no gallley hag upfront, but hey you get paid more 😀

 

[HP2USFA]

6 Trips a month... 6 trips...

I had 6 trips before the 15th...

Overworked my left butt cheek...

If you can't handle 6 trips a month without burning out, please move on and let those of us who can, and WANT to, do the work.

Thank you.

 

[SparrowHawk]

6 Trips a month... 6 trips...

I had 6 trips before the 15th...

Overworked my left butt cheek...

If you can't handle 6 trips a month without burning out, please move on and let those of us who can, and WANT to, do the work.

Thank you.

I think they are referring to 6 Trans Atlantic Trips per month. IIRC a round trip PHL-AMS is about 16 hours total. Now I'm not a math major or an expert on FAA rules so I could be wrong. But doesn't 6 trips x 16 Hours equal 96 hours and isn't the limit 105?

I know some of the international ladies and between the job itself, the BS from Tempe & crossing 6 to 7 rimes zones fatigue is often an issue whether in perfect health in their 30's or approaching the end of their careers. Think about it for a second before you post. Many Corporations will cheerfully pay for an Envoy Class Seat in order for the manager/exec to arrive rested and refreashed. If a company is willing to shell out between 3 & 7 Thousand verus $400 to $900 there is a valid business reason for them to do so.

I've traveled sitting on my assets not working and I know after about 3 or 4 time zones fatigue is very real and I'm not dealing with a couple hundred people either. Those folks work their every loving assets off. Envoy Class service is not the Am West Trailerpark In The Sky service level. The F/A's actually have to work and usually for the entire flight.

You sit there there handing out a few peanuts and a cocktail thinking you know what actual service is. Sitting in the Sharon Stone Seat on Satan's Chariot (737) PHX-BOI does not compare.

 

[HP2USFA]

For the record, we don't hand out peanuts. Haven't in years, but again, thanks for the demonstration of your 'Miss Cleo'-esque skillz. You really do see all, know all.

Again, if you can't work 6 trips a month without burning out, there's the door.

There are plenty of folks who can do them without sacrificing service... which was the point of my reply.

Unless YOUR point was to excuse crappy service. Love for you to best me on that one, dear.

 

[SparrowHawk]

For the record, we don't hand out peanuts. Haven't in years, but again, thanks for the demonstration of your 'Miss Cleo'-esque skillz. You really do see all, know all.

Again, if you can't work 6 trips a month without burning out, there's the door.

There are plenty of folks who can do them without sacrificing service... which was the whole point of this thread.

Unless YOUR point was to excuse crappy service. Love for you to best me on that one, dear.

I'm never had less than great service from the Envoy F/A's! So I have no frame of reference. Now you want to talk about the crap product designed by the Tempe Frat Boys that embarrasses many F/A's that's a different story. It's like the old saying "It hard to soar like an Eagle when you're managed by Turkeys"

Please enlighten me exactly how you don't get burned out when you have to:

Use a fork to pry the IFE out of it's compartment on the 767?
Apologize for seats that flat don't work
Apologize for duct taped overhead bins
Apologize for the poor quality food and crappy wines!

Couple the above with the employee as a liability attitude. One of the International F/A's spoke directly to DP on a flight regarding job security and was flat out told "It shouldn't be viewed as a career, it's a job"

Excuse? NOPE as there is no excuse for sloppy service. However there are reasons why things might not be as good as they could be if the F/A's were respected and given the tools to do their jobs properly. It can't be easy working for the laughing stock of TATL travel. BTW that DP story was related to me by an older International F/A who provides great service despite all of the obstacles placed in front of her by the Morons in the Desert.

 

[Furloughd4now]

I know some of the international ladies and between the job itself, the BS from Tempe & crossing 6 to 7 rimes zones fatigue is often an issue whether in perfect health in their 30's or approaching the end of their careers. Think about it for a second before you post. Many Corporations will cheerfully pay for an Envoy Class Seat in order for the manager/exec to arrive rested and refreashed. If a company is willing to shell out between 3 & 7 Thousand verus $400 to $900 there is a valid business reason for them to do so.

I've traveled sitting on my assets not working and I know after about 3 or 4 time zones fatigue is very real and I'm not dealing with a couple hundred people either. Those folks work their every loving assets off. Envoy Class service is not the Am West Trailerpark In The Sky service level. The F/A's actually have to work and usually for the entire flight.

You sit there there handing out a few peanuts and a cocktail thinking you know what actual service is. Sitting in the Sharon Stone Seat on Satan's Chariot (737) PHX-BOI does not compare.

The difference between sitting on your "assets" through 6 or 7 time zones and such is you are more likely to stay for an extended period and hence the time zones will mess up your circadian.

In addition, sitting in the SS seat for PHX/BOI/PHX/SNA/LAS/PHX. does not compare either! But thats the reality. TA do 2 legs!

TA FAs have one leg to fly to Europe. There is a 2-3 hr rest during the flight. They are there 24-26 hours, by the time the body figures it out its time to leave. pow, one leg home. 16 hours of flt time 2 legs, 3 day trip. Try doing 24 hours of flight time 16 legs, 4 day trip. I'll show you FATUGUE!

4-5 takeoffs and landings in one day is a heck of lot rougher on the body than one. Sitting on your assets watching us from an "Envoy" seat can not compare.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The difference between sitting on your "assets" through 6 or 7 time zones and such is you are more likely to stay for an extended period and hence the time zones will mess up your circadian.

In addition, sitting in the SS seat for PHX/BOI/PHX/SNA/LAS/PHX. does not compare either! But thats the reality. TA do 2 legs!

TA FAs have one leg to fly to Europe. There is a 2-3 hr rest during the flight. They are there 24-26 hours, by the time the body figures it out its time to leave. pow, one leg home. 16 hours of flt time 2 legs, 3 day trip. Try doing 24 hours of flight time 16 legs, 4 day trip. I'll show you FATUGUE!

4-5 takeoffs and landings in one day is a heck of lot rougher on the body than one. Sitting on your assets watching us from an "Envoy" seat can not compare.

Whoa!! What you said was kinda my point. Speaking as an observer I've seen wore out F/A's on either type of trip. It galls me that a F/A has to be on duty 14 hours and end up with 5.5 hours in flight pay. On one hand you have these long haul trips where tht time zones can wear you right out versus 6 take off & landings in one day.

I personally don't envy either as something I'd want to do for 35 years at any price. One of the reasons I tend to be very mellow on board. One poor lady working F I wanted to give her foot massage as she was just DONE! Wore out coming back to PHL from PIT on that late night flight that get in around 11PM or so. It's a tough job made tougher by the way the Industry manages people.

 

[HP2USFA]

I don't do BOI/LAS/PHX/SNA... we've been doing the CLT/PHL-SAN/SFO/SEA turns lately. We have a 40 hour 4 day now. With 11 hours RON each day. It's no greener over here folks... don't buy into the hype.

I wish all I had to do is PHX-BOI/LAS/SNA... lol 🙂

I don't besmirch the length of the day or the difficulty of flying TA... I do, however, besmirch it as an excuse for bad service. And my replies were directly posted to folks who used them as an excuse as to why some folks' service was less than stellar.

To those of you who do your absolute best despite the circumstances, this post isn't for you. You have a heartfelt thank you instead.

 

[Kev3188]

Sitting in the Sharon Stone Seat on Satan's Chariot (737)...

What's the Sharon Stone Seat?