WorldTraveler said:
I have never said who in totality killed Eastern because it is a complex question and no one person or group can be blamed.
okay fine, the AMFA strike at NW. Same story.
WorldTraveler said:
I live in the real world. and the reasons why strikes don't work is because airline labor mgmt. knows that they really don't have much leverage - the same as what the NMB recognizes. When the true unemployment rate in the US is around 15% including people who have left the workforce because they can't find suitable work, labor doesn't have near as much leverage as you think.
They don't work? well you might want to tell that you years and years and years of labor. Again, pick up a book that isn't supplied by management.....
I'll even get you started, google the NK pilots strike.
WorldTraveler said:
The best airline group that should have leverage right now are pilots but no US airline pilot group or in the US or Asia has come up with huge increases in compensation relative ot their peers. WN pilots are paid at the top of the industry and whether you want to admit it or not, the WN culture depends on a well-functioning team and positive employee-employer relationships. WN mgmt. is pushing the limits of that relationship but when operational reliability starts to decline, it takes the public very little time to give up their loyalties. Even pre-merger AA's pilot strike cost AA revenue - which ultimately hurt the company - and provided inroads for competitors.
ugh it isn't about me admitting something or not. but again, you are management 101ing me. No other airline is doing it, so we cant do it. (but don't look at any of the data because that doesn't matter...just trust us. We are smarter than you)
WorldTraveler said:
yes, the public really does have a vote in airline labor issues and they are not terribly inclined to support employee groups who are seeking higher wages than what they get.
no they don't. The public has exactly zero say in contract negos between the company and the union. How in the hell do you come up with that.
WorldTraveler said:
that reality is far more real world than you will admit.
management 101 "real" world.
700UW said:
Your not being honest, what scope concessions did the IAM take outside of bankruptcy?
are you kidding me? 1st, BK has, for the most part been an excuse for the big unions. The bulk of concessions in BK comes from LOAs, not a judge. second....might want to learn about the huge outsourcing movement at United going on right now. Hell the company was profitable when the IAM took that turd contract.
An IAM airline is about to have less in-house ACS than a non-union company who created its own company with-in the company to outsource it ACS. Your union is a failure, a complete failure when you outsource more than Delta.
700UW said:
That would be none at PMUS.
US airways isn't the only airline in the world. I don't know much about US, honestly, but the IAM has been or was a complete failure at United Airlines.
700UW said:
It took a CBA to be abrogated for US to have the right to farmout HMV and components.
you say this then you say
700UW said:
Before Chapter 11 there was very little outsourcing, just engine overhaul for the most part, except for JT8s, and Tays, they were done in-house.
this. Engine work is the largest expense for airline MX. The fact that you had an engine shop but allowed US to outsource engines is a yet another concession.
How many times did the IAM sit down with the management of US to add more engine work in-house?
Even right now, how many times has your union stat down with Parker and Kirby to find ways to bring in other airline work at US? The IAM (as well as most trade unions) are stuck in the 1950s, ran by people who hate the company because its their "job" chasing things that will never happen. The best thing that could happen to the industry, labor and management alike, is to stop the pissing contests and work to benefit each other.
eolesen said:
Well, the premise of this whole topic is a bit silly. Seems that every union winds up beating the strike preparedness drum when Section 6 gets bogged down.
Even at WN, this isn't really new ground -- the last few cycles of negotiations have all been tense, especially with the TWU, who seemingly acts like a real union at WN, while they've rolled over and peed on themselves at AA repeatedly... But even SWAPA's last cycle was far from the definition and legend of labor friendly back in the days of Herb.
After 3 years I would be beating that drum too.
the problem is, they have to take steps to get to the point where they government will reject them. I mean hell might just freeze over and the NMB allow a strike.