Swelbar writes about AA's bankruptcy

[FWAAA]

I'm certain that some will dismiss this merely because of the identity of the author. For too many people, that's the only important criteria, not the words someone writes. I don't agree with all of it, but I think it's well written. The final two paragraphs:

The Sky Is Not Falling

Over at Terry Maxon’s AirlineBiz blog is a letter from TWU President Jim Little decrying American’s filing with $4.1 billion in cash and thus a near term ability to pay its current obligations. I urge you to read the letter in full and the lack of reasoning throughout. What did Little expect the company to do when he refused on numerous occasions to step-up and tell his TWU members the cold truth that something is better than nothing? He has had a number of opportunities over the past five years to negotiate an agreement with American that the company could afford.

The bottom line is bankruptcy is not a big deal. This is not the industry’s first rodeo. American’s problems are bigger than a check labor could write outside of bankruptcy, but sadly, the employees will pay much more inside of bankruptcy. As APA President Dave Bates told The Wall Street Journal, "Sometimes in life it's easier to have something imposed upon a person than have them agree to it voluntarily." Sad commentary indeed.

http://www.swelblog.com/articles/american-airlines-labor-leverage-us-airways-and-chicken-litt.html

Thanks to a certain pilot at US who cut and pasted the entire piece in the US forum - I hadn't seen this.

 

[damajagua]

The reality is that labor relations had deteriorated to such a level that no one
trusted anything that came out of their mouth.
The reality is that the company did indeed offer signing bonus to all the
employees of anywhere from 3% to 6%. If we had accepted that and then
the company had gone bankrupt, at least we would have had that cash in
our pockets. But unions @ AMR are not the most forward looking entities.
There is a lot of blame to go around of why AA got to where it is today
and even though I support my union they are also part of the problem
at AMR.

 

[eolesen]

My favorite line in the Swelbar piece:

Given the messy labor situation that remains at US – six years after its merger with America West – I sincerely doubt anyone would find a US bid credible… especially American’s unionized workforce.

 

[AAviator]

The reality is that labor relations had deteriorated to such a level that no one
trusted anything that came out of their mouth.
The reality is that the company did indeed offer signing bonus to all the
employees of anywhere from 3% to 6%. If we had accepted that and then
the company had gone bankrupt, at least we would have had that cash in
our pockets. But unions @ AMR are not the most forward looking entities.
There is a lot of blame to go around of why AA got to where it is today
and even though I support my union they are also part of the problem
at AMR.

+1

Even though I mostly agree with your premise, I will point to the front office.

Not speaking as labor, but as a participant in an industry where one can observe that ability yields results....

Arpey had plenty of opportunity to turn the place around post 2003/Carty. He lacked the ability. i.e. the leadership required for the task. I wish him well in his new endevor, but I'm glad he's gone.

 

[DallasConehead]

The reality is that labor relations had deteriorated to such a level that no one
trusted anything that came out of their mouth.
The reality is that the company did indeed offer signing bonus to all the
employees of anywhere from 3% to 6%. If we had accepted that and then
the company had gone bankrupt, at least we would have had that cash in
our pockets. But unions @ AMR are not the most forward looking entities.
There is a lot of blame to go around of why AA got to where it is today
and even though I support my union they are also part of the problem
at AMR.

The unions and in particular one union president that spends most of his time posting here on this website, played politics and were foolish. He choose instead to lead the lemmings off the cliff by leading the charge to vote no, instead of giving them a dose of reality, as THAT wouldn't play well to his members and the sheeple that follow him here without thinking for themselves. He and the other leaders were given the dose of reality by the Int and the Company on numerous occasions but, the only things the no vote crowd can say about those entities is to demonize them. Indeed there are demons within, but when the numbers are right in your face and you choose to lead people in the wrong direction, so their futures are in jeopardy? That is demonic as well.
Now this same president is working to derail the bankruptcy process, this thing is in court now. He should learn to keep his mouth shut for the benefit of all the other members in all the other locals. He can spew the double talk to his own membership and leave the rest of us out.

 

[Birdman]

The unions and in particular one union president that spends most of his time posting here on this website,

Can you fathom how few people frequent this website or even know who Bob Owens is that voted no on the t/a?

He and the other leaders were given the dose of reality by the Int and the Company on numerous occasions

"He and the other leaders" have not been in direct negotiations since May of 2010. Why do you not hold those responsible who were for the last 15 months since the failed t/a?

Now this same president is working to derail the bankruptcy process, this thing is in court now. He should learn to keep his mouth shut for the benefit of all the other members in all the other locals. He can spew the double talk to his own membership and leave the rest of us out.

How is he working to derail the BK process and why do you want to deny a fellow American his rights to free speech?

 

[DallasConehead]

He has the right to speak. Some people have the common sense to keep their mouths shut when what they say may have a negative impact on others. Your ignorant if you think that he had no impact on the vote of the failed TA. He and his croonies brought it down, then said they would fix everything and then screwed it up even worse. Open your eyes fool.

Believe me, he is trying to inject himself into the process. Hopefully the Int will keep his silly arse out of it.

 

[1AA]

Believe me, he is trying to inject himself into the process. Hopefully the Int will keep his silly arse out of it.

I guess we are better off with GED grad Bobby Gless in there fighting for all of us. The decisions and arguments that Gless will make will affect us and our families for the rest of our days at American. This is what the TWU (Little) decided to do. Is this the best man to represent us in BK? This is a first for AA and most of us at AA. Bobby Gless will give a whole new meaning to the phrase B.O.H.I.C.A.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

The unions and in particular one union president that spends most of his time posting here on this website, played politics and were foolish. He choose instead to lead the lemmings off the cliff by leading the charge to vote no, instead of giving them a dose of reality, as THAT wouldn't play well to his members and the sheeple that follow him here without thinking for themselves. He and the other leaders were given the dose of reality by the Int and the Company on numerous occasions but, the only things the no vote crowd can say about those entities is to demonize them. Indeed there are demons within, but when the numbers are right in your face and you choose to lead people in the wrong direction, so their futures are in jeopardy? That is demonic as well.
Now this same president is working to derail the bankruptcy process, this thing is in court now. He should learn to keep his mouth shut for the benefit of all the other members in all the other locals. He can spew the double talk to his own membership and leave the rest of us out.

Seems to me you and your lemmings led us off the cliff back in 03 many of us chose a different path this time around. Now you can follow us off the cliff. The NO vote was your dose of reality for you and your sheeple. We are tired of giving back WILLINGLY. Business as usual now get back to work...

 

[Birdman]

Your ignorant if you think that he had no impact on the vote of the failed TA. He and his croonies brought it down, then said they would fix everything and then screwed it up even worse. Open your eyes fool.

I didn't say he had "no impact", but to say he persuaded even half of the yes votes is an insult to those of us who made the decision, based on what was in writing, to not accept another substandard contract. Why are you and others in denial that only a select few were involved in direct negotiations for the last 15 months and it did not include Bob Owens or any of his cronies? Face it, we were being punished by the axis of evil for not approving the contract, but by all means if it makes you feel better to vent on one individual you have the right.

Believe me, he is trying to inject himself into the process. Hopefully the Int will keep his silly arse out of it.

I don't believe anyone these days without some pretty compelling evidence.

 

[DallasConehead]

I guess we are better off with GED grad Bobby Gless in there fighting for all of us. The decisions and arguments that Gless will make will affect us and our families for the rest of our days at American. This is what the TWU (Little) decided to do. Is this the best man to represent us in BK? This is a first for AA and most of us at AA. Bobby Gless will give a whole new meaning to the phrase B.O.H.I.C.A.

There you go, listening to Schalk again. Do you homework and find Sharon Levine Esq.

Why are you and others in denial that only a select few were involved in direct negotiations for the last 15 months and it did not include Bob Owens or any of his cronies? Face it, we were being punished by the axis of evil

There is no question he has been involved, for you to say this is the ramblings of delusion. Especially the "axis of evil" business.

Seems to me you and your lemmings led us off the cliff back in 03 many of us chose a different path this time around. Now you can follow us off the cliff. The NO vote was your dose of reality for you and your sheeple. We are tired of giving back WILLINGLY. Business as usual now get back to work...

I voted against the 03 raping. Out title 2 brothers sent us off that cliff, you probably already knew that though. Keep on believing what you do, next time around it'll be 7. You want to support putting 80k people on the street? Your more foolish then I thought. You people need to wake up and smell the coffee, times are changing. If you don't like it, leave.

 

[Hackman]

There you go, listening to Schalk again. Do you homework and find Sharon Levine Esq.




There is no question he has been involved, for you to say this is the ramblings of delusion. Especially the "axis of evil" business.



I voted against the 03 raping. Out title 2 brothers sent us off that cliff, you probably already knew that though. Keep on believing what you do, next time around it'll be 7. You want to support putting 80k people on the street? Your more foolish then I thought. You people need to wake up and smell the coffee, times are changing. If you don't like it, leave.

You sure do put a undue amount of blame on one or two people. It is much, much more complicated than this. I myself voted NO for reasons stemming from the companies actions, statements, lies, and demands of more life-altering concessions without the BK filing. For myself, it was Jeff "The Brick" Brundages' caustic statements in the press, and the fact AMR managements continued disregard of the sacrifices the unions made since 2003. Not because of what Bob or Chuck said. AMR Management wasted every opportunity to turn the airline around since 2003, while year after year arrogantly rewarding themselves every spring with bonuses (Or PUP pay etc) for losing billions and the stock price tanking. It's the employees fault because management failed to renew the fleet years ago, flew unprofitable routes, or to hedge fuel? Pay for Performance? I think not.

How about the Pilots and F/A's? Is the BK filing their fault too for not accepting more concessions? Gotta be the case right? They should have just knelt on their knees again and accepted the concessions without a fight. I guess that's Bob and Chucks fault also.

The fact is AMR management planned this for BK quite some time. Concessionary contracts or not. This sh*t storm just didn't happen overnight, They want to dump the pensions, and could not get them on the PBGC's doorstep without the BK filing, simple as that.

You better pull your dress down, your pink panty cowardice is showing.

....and please Chapter 7 talk already?

 

[Buck]

You sure do put a undue amount of blame on one or two people. It is much, much more complicated than this. I myself voted NO for reasons stemming from the companies actions, statements, lies, and demands of more life-altering concessions without the BK filing. For myself, it was Jeff "The Brick" Brundages' caustic statements in the press, and the fact AMR managements continued disregard of the sacrifices the unions made since 2003. Not because of what Bob or Chuck said. AMR Management wasted every opportunity to turn the airline around since 2003, while year after year arrogantly rewarding themselves every spring with bonuses (Or PUP pay etc) for losing billions and the stock price tanking. It's the employees fault because management failed to renew the fleet years ago, flew unprofitable routes, or to hedge fuel? Pay for Performance? I think not.

How about the Pilots and F/A's? Is the BK filing their fault too for not accepting more concessions? Gotta be the case right? They should have just knelt on their knees again and accepted the concessions without a fight. I guess that's Bob and Chucks fault also.

The fact is AMR management planned this for BK quite some time. Concessionary contracts or not. This sh*t storm just didn't happen overnight, They want to dump the pensions, and could not get them on the PBGC's doorstep without the BK filing, simple as that.

You better pull your dress down, your pink panty cowardice is showing.

....and please Chapter 7 talk already?

When the planets align in just little more than a year from now Chapter 11 or 7 won't matter.

 

[Jacobin777]

When the planets align in just little more than a year from now Chapter 11 or 7 won't matter.

...and why would that be?

 

[Buck]

...and why would that be?

No one knows the outcome of this bankruptcy. So much speculation. I respect everyone's positions and learn many things about the industry.

The reference to the planet alignment, is just a shot at a theory of someone knowing the future. When the planets align and December 22 2012, the earth will end :huh: