Teamsters Pension Fund in"RED ZONE" - They need your AA AMT Money!

[Anomaly]

Thanks for answering my questions with truth and not side stepping any of them.

Next time just read the stinking post.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

The other limitation is that we can no longer have an employee based defined benefit fund. In other words, PBGC took over from United once and they do not want to do it again. United pension is no longer an option. To enter in to a DB plan again would have to be from an outside group like the Teamsters. The west Coast Conference is well funded and not in danger at all.

We tried to get in to the fund but failed for a variety of reasons. Some were legal set backs, others were financial based on employer contributions and withdrawal penalties, but the saddest reason we have not gotten in to a retirement plan is because we shot ourselves in the foot. We were very close to getting in to the plan when a group of us mechanics started a petition asking the UAL board of directors to stop the process. Sucks to be us I guess.

The Defined Benefit Plan Prohibition issued in Bankruptcy was originally set at 10 years, and the courts reduced it to 5 years. That limit has since expired, thus a UAL company DB plan IS an option for us.

"saddest reason" you say? Perhaps if the ibt wasn't trying to shove the plan down our throats, and instead actually listened to the membership, going to the BOD wouldn't be required.

I'd say it was a proud moment when the mechanics stood up and told the company in no uncertain terms we weren't interested in the ibts schemes.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Gentlemen,

Below is a link to a video of Fred Gegare. Fred ran against both Hoffa, and Pope for the ibt International Presidents position.

This is just 1 of 3 videos in this series and it should enlighten you on just what sort of organization the ibt is, further pay particular attention to what Fred describes happened in the teamsters Central States Plan.

The ibt organizers will no doubt try and woo you with all the supposed benefits of the Western Conference Plan, and tell you to ignore Central States, and while it is true that currently the Western Conference Plan is in the green, what you hear Fred describe could just as easily happen to you.

And before the ibt apologist try and dismiss Fred Gegare, this is a man that rose to stand against Hoffa for the presidency of the ibt, his bio is available at many places on the web and its safe to say that this man knows more about the pension workings in the ibt than anyone currently on this board.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPltt__fn68

 

[TWU informer]

The Truth always comes out !

 

[Tex-Mech]

I do not know them personally, but I have spoken to both of them in person. Bob was former UAL, and Chris was former Continental. Bob worked in IAD for UA and Chris worked in IAH for CO. They are both now on leave of absence and working full time for the IBT international. The last time I spoke with Bob, he was on our negotiating team and had just accepted the Teamster job. I think it was late last year. You will get no BS from either one of these guys. They are not organizers and will be around long after the election.

ROBERT FISHER
International Rep
NA $89,930 $9,483 $11,850 $5,778 $117,041
CHRISTOPHER MOORE
Trade Division Rep
LU 19 $18,000 $0 $7,819 $0
$25,819



CHRIS MOORE
BUSINESS AGENT/ORGANIZER h34r:
N/A $18,774 $743 $19,517
TMSTRS LU 19

5939 BENDER ROAD
HUMBLE
TX
77396 Type or Classification
Affiliate Purpose
© Date
(D) Amount
(E) Total Itemized Transactions $20,272 Total Non-Itemized Transactions $15,624 Total of All Transactions $35,896 C.MOORE, 3/1-3/31/09,SALARY 04/20/2011 $7,428

Remember they are not organizers. :blink:

 

[Anomaly]

The Defined Benefit Plan Prohibition issued in Bankruptcy was originally set at 10 years, and the courts reduced it to 5 years. That limit has since expired, thus a UAL company DB plan IS an option for us.

"saddest reason" you say? Perhaps if the ibt wasn't trying to shove the plan down our throats, and instead actually listened to the membership, going to the BOD wouldn't be required.

I'd say it was a proud moment when the mechanics stood up and told the company in no uncertain terms we weren't interested in the ibts schemes.

I do not remember it the way you do, even still, UAL screwed us out of our pension, and people like YOU would gladly have them do it again? NO THANK YOU. Keep UAL away from my retirement, or whats left of it.

Even with what ever shaded past you tell me about the Teamsters, I would feel much better with them holding my retirement funds than UAL. Even the mob provided a better return than the BPGC. What are you smoking?

"thus a UAL company DB plan IS an option for us". ARE YOU FOR REAL?

You AMFA crack heads are amazing. The fact that you are PROUD that a couple of hundred mechanics held up a retirement plan for all the hundreds of mechanics over 65 who are still working at UAL is beyond me.

For the rest of you who do not know, the plan we were trying for at the time was offering a three for one credit for the first 5 years with basically no vesting period. A guy who was able to work only 5 more years would have walked with 15 years towards retirement credit.

A small number of AMFA loyalist put together a petition, and with about 2 hundred signatures from SFO, was able to get the UAL board of directors to stop the funding for the rest of the system(Like it takes that much pressure to get BOD to stop funding for employees anyway). This also lead to more intense studies by the board of the bankruptcy code, including the Pilots me too clause. Guess what? It was "discovered" thanks to AMFA, that the cost for getting us mechanics in a plan is MUCH MUCH MORE THAN ORIGINALLY THOUGHT !!!

Fast forward 2 years later, and we still don't have a retirement plan.

And this jag off is PROUD of that......

You sure showed us.

 

[Anomaly]

ROBERT FISHER
International Rep
NA $89,930 $9,483 $11,850 $5,778 $117,041
CHRISTOPHER MOORE
Trade Division Rep
LU 19 $18,000 $0 $7,819 $0
$25,819



CHRIS MOORE
BUSINESS AGENT/ORGANIZER h34r:
N/A $18,774 $743 $19,517
TMSTRS LU 19

5939 BENDER ROAD
HUMBLE
TX
77396 Type or Classification
Affiliate Purpose
© Date
(D) Amount
(E) Total Itemized Transactions $20,272 Total Non-Itemized Transactions $15,624 Total of All Transactions $35,896 C.MOORE, 3/1-3/31/09,SALARY 04/20/2011 $7,428

Remember they are not organizers. :blink:

Wanna wallow in the mud TEX,

Here ya go.

Friday, April 17, 2009

Is Your ex-AMFA Leadership worth $500,000?

According to the 2008 LM-2 that AMFA filed with the Department of Labor, AMFA paid Director Olivio V. Delle-Femine $560,394. Wow!

This brings to mind a couple of questions.

What did Mr. Delle-Femine do to deserve five-times the average salary of an employed Mechanic?

At a recent Local 14 meeting it was explained that part of this compensation included an annuity to cover his retirement.

What?! Over a half-million dollars for a retirement! At a time when mechanics are losing their pensions in bankruptcy, how the AMFA can justify spending this kind of money on a pension plan for an individual? The AMFA's membership is in steep decline, Northwest Airlines is gone, United Airlines is gone, and yet they feel the need to spend the hard earned dues money for a retired Director of the Association.

The annual dues for membership in the AMFA at Alaska are around $700. Coincidentally, if you took the dues paid by the members at Alaska Airlines for one year, it still wouldn't be enough to pay for the annuity. Since the AMFA's membership is declining, how can they justify this kind of expenditure?

Where in the AMFA constitution does it spell out this perk? How did this happen? But here is a bigger question…
Why aren't you guys pissed about this? The association is under attack and the leadership is spending money like it is going out of style.

Under the heading of Assets and Liabilities, the AMFA lists net assets of $734,022 at the beginning of the reporting period and a total of -$479,433 in net assets at the end of the reporting period. For those of you without a calculator, that's a loss of $1,213,455.

Again I ask, when you are losing this kind of money, how can you justify spending these exorbitant amounts?
The only explanation that I can come up with is that the AMFA leadership is out of touch with its membership.

 

[Anomaly]

Gentlemen,

Below is a link to a video of Fred Gegare. Fred ran against both Hoffa, and Pope for the ibt International Presidents position.

This is just 1 of 3 videos in this series and it should enlighten you on just what sort of organization the ibt is, further pay particular attention to what Fred describes happened in the teamsters Central States Plan.

The ibt organizers will no doubt try and woo you with all the supposed benefits of the Western Conference Plan, and tell you to ignore Central States, and while it is true that currently the Western Conference Plan is in the green, what you hear Fred describe could just as easily happen to you.

And before the ibt apologist try and dismiss Fred Gegare, this is a man that rose to stand against Hoffa for the presidency of the ibt, his bio is available at many places on the web and its safe to say that this man knows more about the pension workings in the ibt than anyone currently on this board.

There are Different plans. The one you and your friends screwed us out of was the Western Conference plan. Take a look at them.

http://www.wctpension.org/

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

I do not remember it the way you do, even still, UAL screwed us out of our pension, and people like YOU would gladly have them do it again? NO THANK YOU. Keep UAL away from my retirement, or whats left of it.

Even with what ever shaded past you tell me about the Teamsters, I would feel much better with them holding my retirement funds than UAL. Even the mob provided a better return than the BPGC. What are you smoking?

"thus a UAL company DB plan IS an option for us". ARE YOU FOR REAL?

You AMFA crack heads are amazing. The fact that you are PROUD that a couple of hundred mechanics held up a retirement plan for all the hundreds of mechanics over 65 who are still working at UAL is beyond me.

For the rest of you who do not know, the plan we were trying for at the time was offering a three for one credit for the first 5 years with basically no vesting period. A guy who was able to work only 5 more years would have walked with 15 years towards retirement credit.

A small number of AMFA loyalist put together a petition, and with about 2 hundred signatures, was able to get the UAL board of directors to stop the funding (Like it takes that much pressure to get BOD to stop funding for employees anyway). This also lead to more intense studies by the board of the bankruptcy code, including the Pilots me too clause. Guess what? It was "discovered" thanks to AMFA, that the cost for getting us mechanics in a plan is MUCH MUCH MORE THAN ORIGINALLY THOUGHT !!!

Fast forward 2 years later, and we still don't have a retirement plan.

And this jag off is PROUD of that......

You sure showed us.

Yea its funny how your memory gets fuzzy when confronted with the truth.

I never said I would "gladly" take anything from the company, I simply pointed out it is an option where you were doing the same sad teamster dance to make it seem as if the ibt pension was the only real option.

A couple of hundred mechanics held up a retirement plan? REALLY? Are you seriously sitting here and trying to pass off that a few disgruntled AMFA mechanics hamstrung the mighty mighty teamsters? Maybe it was more than a few hundred...or perhaps you need to face facts, your boys lied to get on the property by promising those "65 and still working" a promise you couldn't deliver on. Hell they even stated they could negotiate the pension outside section six. NOT!

Fast forward two years later and because you couldn't sucker us into the ibt pension ....what did you get us retirement wise in our last agreement? NOTHING! No pension, no annuity, no 401k boost, NOTHING!

And this is a ROTFLMAO moment.....you're actually proposing with all the other teamster shenanigans in the pension arena that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE in the viability of the "triple vesting"?

5 years and get paid for 15......and where does the extra money come from genius? Add to it the games the international seems to be playing with a lot of other ibt pension plans....Damn you're one naive individual. And you have the gall to call those that oppose this plan crack heads.....thanks for the laugh!

Lastly, and its one of my BIG pet peeves with ALL ibt plans is their restrictions on work you might do after retirement. I have plans after I leave this little asylum to still work in aviation, in the ibt plan, I would lose my pension payments if I did.

NO THANK YOU!

 

[Anomaly]

Yea its funny how your memory gets fuzzy when confronted with the truth.

I never said I would "gladly" take anything from the company, I simply pointed out it is an option where you were doing the same sad teamster dance to make it seem as if the ibt pension was the only real option.

A couple of hundred mechanics held up a retirement plan? REALLY? Are you seriously sitting here and trying to pass off that a few disgruntled AMFA mechanics hamstrung the mighty mighty teamsters? Maybe it was more than a few hundred...or perhaps you need to face facts, your boys lied to get on the property by promising those "65 and still working" a promise you couldn't deliver on. Hell they even stated they could negotiate the pension outside section six. NOT!

Fast forward two years later and because you couldn't sucker us into the ibt pension ....what did you get us retirement wise in our last agreement? NOTHING! No pension, no annuity, no 401k boost, NOTHING!

And this is a ROTFLMAO moment.....you're actually proposing with all the other teamster shenanigans in the pension arena that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE in the viability of the "triple vesting"?

5 years and get paid for 15......and where does the extra money come from genius? Add to it the games the international seems to be playing with a lot of other ibt pension plans....Damn you're one naive individual. And you have the gall to call those that oppose this plan crack heads.....thanks for the laugh!

Lastly, and its one of my BIG pet peeves with ALL ibt plans is their restrictions on work you might do after retirement. I have plans after I leave this little asylum to still work in aviation, in the ibt plan, I would lose my pension payments if I did.

NO THANK YOU!

You were one of those collecting signatures.... How many then? What about the AMFA credo, everything gets voted on?

You sure made it so that we never had a say in this. If the majority did not like it, we could have voted it down. Much better than the way you snakes ran off to the company.

 

[xUT]

Yea its funny how your memory gets fuzzy when confronted with the truth.

I never said I would "gladly" take anything from the company, I simply pointed out it is an option where you were doing the same sad teamster dance to make it seem as if the ibt pension was the only real option.

A couple of hundred mechanics held up a retirement plan? REALLY? Are you seriously sitting here and trying to pass off that a few disgruntled AMFA mechanics hamstrung the mighty mighty teamsters? Maybe it was more than a few hundred...or perhaps you need to face facts, your boys lied to get on the property by promising those "65 and still working" a promise you couldn't deliver on. Hell they even stated they could negotiate the pension outside section six. NOT!

Fast forward two years later and because you couldn't sucker us into the ibt pension ....what did you get us retirement wise in our last agreement? NOTHING! No pension, no annuity, no 401k boost, NOTHING!

And this is a ROTFLMAO moment.....you're actually proposing with all the other teamster shenanigans in the pension arena that you ACTUALLY BELIEVE in the viability of the "triple vesting"?

5 years and get paid for 15......and where does the extra money come from genius? Add to it the games the international seems to be playing with a lot of other ibt pension plans....Damn you're one naive individual. And you have the gall to call those that oppose this plan crack heads.....thanks for the laugh!

Lastly, and its one of my BIG pet peeves with ALL ibt plans is their restrictions on work you might do after retirement. I have plans after I leave this little asylum to still work in aviation, in the ibt plan, I would lose my pension payments if I did.

NO THANK YOU!

Truth hurts! IBT deflects, situation normal...
B) xUT

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Wanna wallow in the mud TEX,

Here ya go.

Friday, April 17, 2009

Is Your ex-AMFA Leadership worth $500,000?

According to the 2008 LM-2 that AMFA filed with the Department of Labor, AMFA paid Director Olivio V. Delle-Femine $560,394. Wow!

This brings to mind a couple of questions.

What did Mr. Delle-Femine do to deserve five-times the average salary of an employed Mechanic?

At a recent Local 14 meeting it was explained that part of this compensation included an annuity to cover his retirement.

What?! Over a half-million dollars for a retirement! At a time when mechanics are losing their pensions in bankruptcy, how the AMFA can justify spending this kind of money on a pension plan for an individual? The AMFA's membership is in steep decline, Northwest Airlines is gone, United Airlines is gone, and yet they feel the need to spend the hard earned dues money for a retired Director of the Association.

The annual dues for membership in the AMFA at Alaska are around $700. Coincidentally, if you took the dues paid by the members at Alaska Airlines for one year, it still wouldn't be enough to pay for the annuity. Since the AMFA's membership is declining, how can they justify this kind of expenditure?

Where in the AMFA constitution does it spell out this perk? How did this happen? But here is a bigger question…
Why aren't you guys pissed about this? The association is under attack and the leadership is spending money like it is going out of style.

Under the heading of Assets and Liabilities, the AMFA lists net assets of $734,022 at the beginning of the reporting period and a total of -$479,433 in net assets at the end of the reporting period. For those of you without a calculator, that's a loss of $1,213,455.

Again I ask, when you are losing this kind of money, how can you justify spending these exorbitant amounts?
The only explanation that I can come up with is that the AMFA leadership is out of touch with its membership.

Well by all means lets have at it.

http://www.tdu.org/annual-150000-club-report

December 16, 2011: Teamsters for a Democratic Union believes members have a right to know where our dues money goes.
Each year we undertake a major research project, analyze hundreds of financial reports, and make the information available to all members.
Teamsters have been hit hard by the continued recession and corporate attacks. Pensions cut. Layoffs. Wage freezes and cuts. Union busting.
These attacks have hit our union’s finances too. Most locals have lost income.
The International Union, which gets 22 percent of most members’ dues, has been hit because wage concessions have reduced dues and the union has lost membership.
The International’s total dues income from members has barely increased at all in recent years: from $159 million in 2007 to $160 million in 2010.
A large component of dues expenditure goes to officer salaries. Our study of union finances shows:

• 123 Teamster officials made over $150,000 in salary in 2010; 35 made over $200,000. The total paid to that group went up $259,636 over the previous year.

• 129 Teamster officials got paid a multiple salary by the International Union, most of them appointees of James Hoffa.

• For the first time since he took office, James Hoffa did not get a salary increase. This is because his salary goes up by a percentage equal to the rate of inflation, and inflation did not rise.

Hoffa did take a $6,000 hike in his total compensation: Hoffa is paid a very lucrative “housing allowance” on top of his salary.
The Past and the Present
Over the years TDU’s publication of the Club and the reform movement’s efforts to put union resources to work for members have had a very positive effect on union priorities.
Before we won the Right to Vote, top officers took salaries up to $500,000.
But we still have a long way to go.
When Hoffa first ran for office, he promised to “cut and cap” salaries at $150,000 and limit perks, but he has not lived up to that promise.
Instead, he greatly increased the number of multiple salaries, and invented new perks, including for himself.
If every official making over $150,000 took a 10 percent cut, that would free up over $2.3 million, enough to put dozens more organizers in the field.
Cracking Down on Dues Waste
Our International Union should have zero tolerance for dues waste. But in the past year we have seen the Hoffa administration tolerate and even cover up embezzlement of members’ money by key Hoffa supporters.
In L.A., Paul Kenny had a total compensation of $200,498 in 2010. It wasn’t enough for his lifestyle. Over a four-year period, he siphoned $154,929 of union funds for top-shelf liquor and meals.
Kenny went to expensive watering holes on 63 percent of all business days, according to a detailed report issued last May by the Independent Review Board (IRB). Hoffa had a report way back in February 2009 from his own International Auditor detailing this embezzlement, but took no action to stop it.
In Boston, Hoffa’s Trade Show Director John Perry was busted by the IRB for embezzlement, hiring a felon to control hiring, and suppressing members’ rights.
Hoffa knew about all these violations, because courageous members reported them to him in writing. Hoffa could have acted on the charges reported in detail by Teamster Voice.
Instead Hoffa covered it up, told members he could not protect them, and spent more than $100,000 paying Perry an extra salary during the period that the scandal was public.
The Right to Know
Many Teamster officers work hard for members. They know that members expect officers to use union funds to advance the union, not to benefit a few at the top.
TDU believes that officers and members have a right to know the facts. Some officials say giving members the facts helps employers, who can use information about salaries or corrupt officers like Paul Kenny or John Perry against the union.
The truth is employers have plenty of resources to look it up on their own. The information is public.
It is only members who are kept in the dark when the union hides information, whether about contracts, members’ rights, grievance precedents, or union finances.
Informed members can root out dues waste and corruption where it exists and make sure our dues money is spent building Teamster Power.
Download the $150,000 Club Report.
Download TDU’s Annual Teamster Salary Report. This longer report includes all officials who made over $120,000 in salary.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

There are Different plans. The one you and your friends screwed us out of was the Western Conference plan. Take a look at them.

http://www.wctpension.org/

Correction .... the one we saved ourselves from. Nice try.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

You were one of those collecting signatures.... How many then? What about the AMFA credo, everything gets voted on?

You sure made it so that we never had a say in this. If the majority did not like it, we could have voted it down. Much better than the way you snakes ran off to the company.

If it was in AMFA it would've been voted on.

It would've been vetted through negotiators who were ELECTED BY THE MEMBERSHIP, and not appointed "yes" men.

What you fail to grasp, is that there is no way the ibt comes out on top of this.

If it was just "a few hundred" disgruntled AMFA mechanics , then either those "few" weild ALOT of power or the ibt is just weak.

If the "few" is just an excuse, then the ibt still fails as they built their UAL campaign around the pension and failed to deliver on yet another promise to the membership.

And we haven't even touched on the fact that the CAL mechs have already sent the ibt packing on this issue more than once.

You think the ibt is going to dictate to this membership, you better think again.

 

[Buck]

It appears from an AA employee's view that Anomaly has an individual problem with his pension.

The MOB has a better rate of return than a pension?

Yes, I have met him before, " If you ruin my pension I will kill you ".

Anomaly you just lost the fight. I was wrong before,it is about you.