Teamsters Pension Fund in"RED ZONE" - They need your AA AMT Money!

[Anomaly]

Anomaly is using misdirection of the representational issue in attempt to placate a personal loss that no other seems to be complaining about. In other words he is he under false a pretense .

And Buck,

Are you seriously that naive to think I am the ONLY one who is upset at loosing my pension?

 

[TWU informer]

TWU informer, you talk down about MUD SLINGING, but should I remind you WHO started this post????

YOU DID.

I am throwing back. I can go on for days about AMFA failures if you would like?

The UAL guys who are adding to this should lend to what we are going through on an everyday basis. Since we went to AMFA, xUT, Third Seat Hero, and myself, constantly arguing and fighting is an everyday thing. This type of mud throwing happens at work and never stops here at UAL. It has been going on for years. All the while, the company laughs.

Things are getting better as our present Union gains trust. My message to you all is simple. Don't wind up like UAL. We are the worst example. Don't use one union as a stepping stone for another. You will never fully heal.

If AMFA is your choice, STAY WITH THEM. But make sure they are who you really believe they are.

And don't forget about the improtant fact that the Industrial Unions have represented the majority of the professionn for over 60 years and by your admission it has "gotten worse".

And you still use words like "they" and "them" when making reference to unionism.
When you finally get to the term "We" and "Us" then you will understand unionism and more importantly Craft Unionism.

You can have all of those "they" and "them" industrial unions, because "they" are not for me.

Who is the "Union" you speak of that is gaining trus at UALt? Who is the "they" and "them" you always speak about when referencing unionism? Do you really need "them" to save you from youself? Do you need "them" to tell you what has been decided for "You"? That is nothing short of pathetic.

 

[TWU informer]

TWU informer, you talk down about MUD SLINGING, but should I remind you WHO started this post????

YOU DID.

I am throwing back. I can go on for days about AMFA failures if you would like?

The Article I posted to start this thread came directly from the Teamsters for a Democratic Union.
So you are saying that the Teamsters are so great that their own members sling mud at their Pension Fund?

Remember, you said that, not me. Are you even in the game?

 

[aapitbull]

Well let see the TWU has The New Direction group out of N.Y. that advocates changes to a democratic process in electing our leaders and the IBT has the Teamsters for a Democratic Union {TDU} why do people represented by these two groups seek to install democracy into their unions if they are happy with them? Why would I want to join one of these groups when I can see those represented by them are not happy with what they have?

I am a mechanic and I want to be represented by Mechanic's not Bus drivers or Truck drivers they should have their own union!

Owe yea that was the Teamsters back in the day now they represent anyone who will pay them dues to help fund their underfunded pensions,ain't Industrial Unionism great.

 

[JABORD]

You are speculating without fact. Do you know what the West Coat conference offered us exactly? Initially it was a very good deal. Believe it or don't. We know what happened at UAL.

Like I said, making uncomfirmed statements gives folks false hope. Who's speculating without facts?
No, I don't know about UAL, but let me tell you what I do know. Prior to my 22yr career as an A&P with AA, I worked for the Teamsters at the Central States Pension Fund. That's right, the very one referenced in recent articles and video. I wore a number of hats there while earning my 10yr vested pension and 2.5 of those years I was responsible to assist the truckers with starting their application toward retirement. So no, not just speculation my friend.
Truckers, especially previous generations of, are a true symbol of Americana at it's best. Teamsters have done a fair job of representing that industry but they have no place representing Mechanics in aviation.
You remind me of an opponent who's strategy is to tire us out by beating your face into our fists. We do appreciate your leads into getting the information out though, thanks.

 

[Tex-Mech]

I am a mechanic and I want to be represented by Mechanic's not Bus drivers or Truck drivers they should have their own union!

So is the new saying...why ride the bus or truck, when you can fly with AMFA

 

[TWU informer]

So is the new saying...why ride the bus or truck, when you can fly with AMFA

I prefer:

"Industrial Unionism has failed, Let's try a Craft Union"

 

[Buck]

Nice try Buck

Another post without answering questions posed to you? I answered your questions, have some fortitude.

 

[Buck]

And Buck,

Are you seriously that naive to think I am the ONLY one who is upset at loosing my pension?

No, but it would appear that you are the only one who is using this forum for your vengeance of an alleged personal attack.

 

[Anomaly]

Ok pal, so you recognize your "weakness" but not enough to deny yourself to spin the BS. Let me help you out. To say that you will receive credit for your previous time is putting a spin out that gives folks false hope. Have you confirmed this?, I doubt it. The teamsters pension funds have very rigid rules as to how they will credit a member for past credit. "two for one credit"! maybe with the side deals for the top dogs of the Union but doubtful for the members with todays Pension Funds struggling to stay out of the red.
In another post there was a brief mention of retirees needing to suppliment their pension $$ with a side job. Again, the funds have very strict reqirements for whether a retiree can work after receiving his/her check. Members have had their pension checks suspended if prior 'approval' hadn't been obtained and in some examples, a retired member has had the pension check denied until post-retirement employment was terminated.
Oh, and teamster reps not Organizers, really?!!

You write like you know what is going on....

The two for one credit was widely discussed here at UAL, and in fact, 3 years ago, July 2009, there was discussions of road shows to explain the plans options. There were limits as you said, but because none of us had less than around 20 years seniority, we all met these limits (there are very very FEW mechanics here at UAL with less than 20 years of service) We never had a chance to get in to the plan however because as i said the UAL board of directors became involved and held up the company from moving forward. It was discovered that the plan would have been more expensive than originally perceived because of added delays, progress with the merger, and the pilots "me too" clause. Deny it all you want, but it really did go down this way. We were looking forward to a vote on the subject, but a petition by a couple of hundred of our own rank and file set this in to a tail spin.

WCT plan never entered red, and only slightly dipped in yellow.

http://www.wctpension.org/index.html

You question also the fact that several of our retired members had to go out and find jobs stating limitations in the retirement plan. Again, I should remind you that UAL defaulted. WE LOST OUR PLAN. The fund was taken over by the insurer who limited the funds rather than the plan. There are no such restrictions for getting another job because the retiree's lost about a third of what they were getting prior to that. As I said before, the plan also froze on a certain date. You get what you get, and you get no more no matter how much longer you work.

http://www.pbgc.gov/wr/trusteed/plans/plan-19922400.html

Teamster Reps are different than organizers. We saw the organizers only during the campaign. The reps are involved after that. I ave never had a problem getting a straight answer from a Rep. I may not agree with or like the answer, but I have not been BS'd by them either.

 

[aapitbull]

You write like you know what is going on....

The two for one credit was widely discussed here at UAL, and in fact, 3 years ago, July 2009, there was discussions of road shows to explain the plans options. There were limits as you said, but because none of us had less than around 20 years seniority, we all met these limits (there are very very FEW mechanics here at UAL with less than 20 years of service) We never had a chance to get in to the plan however because as i said the UAL board of directors became involved and held up the company from moving forward. It was discovered that the plan would have been more expensive than originally perceived because of added delays, progress with the merger, and the pilots "me too" clause. Deny it all you want, but it really did go down this way. We were looking forward to a vote on the subject, but a petition by a couple of hundred of our own rank and file set this in to a tail spin.

WCT plan never entered red, and only slightly dipped in yellow.

http://www.wctpension.org/index.html

You question also the fact that several of our retired members had to go out and find jobs stating limitations in the retirement plan. Again, I should remind you that UAL defaulted. WE LOST OUR PLAN. The fund was taken over by the insurer who limited the funds rather than the plan. There are no such restrictions for getting another job because the retiree's lost about a third of what they were getting prior to that. As I said before, the plan also froze on a certain date. You get what you get, and you get no more no matter how much longer you work.

http://www.pbgc.gov/...n-19922400.html

Teamster Reps are different than organizers. We saw the organizers only during the campaign. The reps are involved after that. I ave never had a problem getting a straight answer from a Rep. I may not agree with or like the answer, but I have not been BS'd by them either.

And I have had dozen of your guys e-mail me and say just the opposite, so the guys claiming that they were under the impression that the seniority intergration would be voted on are all liars or is that just a misunderstanding that the teamsters are making the final decision now.

 

[Anomaly]

Like I said, making uncomfirmed statements gives folks false hope. Who's speculating without facts?
No, I don't know about UAL, but let me tell you what I do know. Prior to my 22yr career as an A&P with AA, I worked for the Teamsters at the Central States Pension Fund. That's right, the very one referenced in recent articles and video. I wore a number of hats there while earning my 10yr vested pension and 2.5 of those years I was responsible to assist the truckers with starting their application toward retirement. So no, not just speculation my friend.
Truckers, especially previous generations of, are a true symbol of Americana at it's best. Teamsters have done a fair job of representing that industry but they have no place representing Mechanics in aviation.
You remind me of an opponent who's strategy is to tire us out by beating your face into our fists. We do appreciate your leads into getting the information out though, thanks.

Then you should know, with your vast experience, that Central States and WCT are to completely separate and distinct companies. Or are you just pretending to know? 20 something years before working at UAL I was in the US Military. It does not qualify me as an expert on military spending now does it?

The record of a second big Teamsters' pension fund, covering members in the West, bolsters Mr. Bodie's arguments. The Western Conference of Teamsters fund has long shunned stocks and uses a totally different investment approach, a portfolio of 20- and 30-year Treasury bonds and other high-grade fixed-income securities that are scheduled to make payments when its retirees will be claiming their money. The Western Conference pension fund was not perceptibly hurt by the bear market.

You all can have some fun with this one. But it explains my point on the different funds.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/15/business/15teamster.html?pagewanted=print&position=

 

[Anomaly]

And I have had dozen of your guys e-mail me and say just the opposite, so the guys claiming that they were under the impression that the seniority intergration would be voted on are all liars or is that just a misunderstanding that the teamsters are making the final decision now.

Two different topics. Try to keep up.

Before you answer, learn about the UAL consent decree.

http://www.airlinemechanics.org/Final%20Amended%20Consent%20Decree.pdf

It is not going away. We can have as many votes as you want, but it will not change the fact that the courts and not the negotiating parties control the seniority at UAL. Sad fact, but the truth.

http://www.teamster.org/content/calualcmi-weekly-mechanics-update-july-1-2012

Pass on the link to your e-mail friends.

 

[aapitbull]

Two different topics. Try to keep up.

Before you answer, learn about the UAL consent decree.

http://www.airlineme...sent Decree.pdf

It is not going away. We can have as many votes as you want, but it will not change the fact that the courts and not the negotiating parties control the seniority at UAL. Sad fact, but the truth.

http://www.teamster....ate-july-1-2012

Pass on the link to your e-mail friends.

Nothing in there stops you from intergrating different ways most of it deals with layoff and recall but that was not the question which was were the CAL guys mislead by the IBT about how this would be handled?

 

[Anomaly]

Nothing in there stops you from intergrating different ways most of it deals with layoff and recall but that was not the question which was were the CAL guys mislead by the IBT about how this would be handled?

BULL SH**

The decree speaks exactly on the date used for seniority. The link I sent you is just a brief overview of the actual court decision. The actual description of how the decree is implemented is several hundred pages. To sum it all up however, HIRE DATE is the rule.

Lay off and Recall is the underlying point.